Thanks for bringing this up and going in-depth on the evidence. I’ve always felt uneasy with the cage free campaigns and shrimp stunning.
Part of that is definitely my more “abolitionist” viewpoint. I hear about those and think “wait how much money are we putting towards exploiting animals in a bit less bad way?” Of course an improvement is an improvement so if they are actually better then that is better, and there is benefit to getting momentum. It’s easier to take a mile once you’ve gotten an inch, so to speak. But if we don’t even actually know if the increment we’re pushing is better, that’s a problem that deserves to have alarm bells sounding.
That said, I don’t really know what would be better tactically. Lately I’m pretty AI-pilled, thinking that if we can make AGI aligned with all sentient beings then that will be a huge benefit. But today’s labs aren’t gonna release a model that only ever suggests vegan recipes, and the future of AI is highly speculative.
Totally related to this until you made your suggestion at the end 😂 I would rather lean in the direction of thinking political interventions deserve more attention, e.g. Animal Policy International, Animal Society or maybe even funding animal political parties? Normalizing animals in politics seems robustly good despite uncertainties about shrimp and cages.
Yes, definitely in favor of more pro-animal politics! I think there are a lot of high impact things the movement can be doing. It’s worth focusing on the ones we know, and researching new avenues and theories of change too.
Thanks for bringing this up and going in-depth on the evidence. I’ve always felt uneasy with the cage free campaigns and shrimp stunning.
Part of that is definitely my more “abolitionist” viewpoint. I hear about those and think “wait how much money are we putting towards exploiting animals in a bit less bad way?” Of course an improvement is an improvement so if they are actually better then that is better, and there is benefit to getting momentum. It’s easier to take a mile once you’ve gotten an inch, so to speak. But if we don’t even actually know if the increment we’re pushing is better, that’s a problem that deserves to have alarm bells sounding.
That said, I don’t really know what would be better tactically. Lately I’m pretty AI-pilled, thinking that if we can make AGI aligned with all sentient beings then that will be a huge benefit. But today’s labs aren’t gonna release a model that only ever suggests vegan recipes, and the future of AI is highly speculative.
Sometimes I wonder if we should just start doing door-to-door vegan advocacy, like the jehovahs witnesses and normy politics and deep canvassing (and street epistemology and “smart politics” https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/D2GrrrrfipHWPJSHh/book-review-how-minds-change ).
Totally related to this until you made your suggestion at the end 😂 I would rather lean in the direction of thinking political interventions deserve more attention, e.g. Animal Policy International, Animal Society or maybe even funding animal political parties? Normalizing animals in politics seems robustly good despite uncertainties about shrimp and cages.
Yes, definitely in favor of more pro-animal politics! I think there are a lot of high impact things the movement can be doing. It’s worth focusing on the ones we know, and researching new avenues and theories of change too.