Hi David,
It doesn’t seem problematic to me to say that a person or individual could be cause-neutral but currently focused on just one area. If that weren’t the case, the only people who would count as cause neutral would be those working on / donating to cause prioritisation itself. That seems like a less useful concept to me than the one I tried to carve out (though equally plausible as a way of understanding ‘cause neutral’). One way to frame my understanding of cause neutrality is that what matters is not whether a person/organisation is currently focused on one area, but if they’d be willing to switch to focusing on a different area if they became persuaded it would be more effective to do so.
There’s also the difference between an individual and an organisation being cause neutral. It’s very plausible that a cause neutral individual could work for an organisation that isn’t cause neutral. It even seems plausible that an organisation might be not cause neutral, while being staffed entirely by people who are cause neutral. That would be true, on my understanding, if it were the case that those individuals would be willing to pivot away from working on that cause if it turned out not to be the best, but wouldn’t do so by pivoting the organisation (rather by closing it down, or finding others to staff it).
On this understanding, Giving What We Can is both run by individuals who are cause neutral, and (separately) is cause neutral as an organisation.
“Given that Giving What We Can is cause neutral, why do we recommend exclusively poverty eradication charities, and focus on our website and materials on poverty? There are three main reasons …”
If we’re really using your definition, then that’s a pretty silly question. It’s like saying “If David is really cause neutral, then why is he focused on animals?” or “If Jeff is cause neutral, why does he donate to AMF?” Using your definition, there’s (as we’ve both pointed out) absolutely no tension between focusing on a cause and being cause neutral.
I think even if there’s no tension, there could still be an open question about how you think your actions generate value. For example, cause-neutral-Jeff could be donating to AMF because he thinks it’s the charity with the highest expected value per $, or because he’s risk averse and thinks it’s the best if you’re going for a trade off between expected value and low variance in value per $, or because he wants to encourage other charities to be as transparent and impact focused as AMF. So although it’s not surprising that cause-neutral-Jeff focuses his donations on just one charity, and that it’s AMF, it’s still interesting to hear the answer to ‘why does he donate to AMF?’.
But I agree, it’s difficult not to slide between definitions on a concept like cause neutrality, and I’m sorry I’m not as clear as I’d like to be.
Hi David, It doesn’t seem problematic to me to say that a person or individual could be cause-neutral but currently focused on just one area. If that weren’t the case, the only people who would count as cause neutral would be those working on / donating to cause prioritisation itself. That seems like a less useful concept to me than the one I tried to carve out (though equally plausible as a way of understanding ‘cause neutral’). One way to frame my understanding of cause neutrality is that what matters is not whether a person/organisation is currently focused on one area, but if they’d be willing to switch to focusing on a different area if they became persuaded it would be more effective to do so. There’s also the difference between an individual and an organisation being cause neutral. It’s very plausible that a cause neutral individual could work for an organisation that isn’t cause neutral. It even seems plausible that an organisation might be not cause neutral, while being staffed entirely by people who are cause neutral. That would be true, on my understanding, if it were the case that those individuals would be willing to pivot away from working on that cause if it turned out not to be the best, but wouldn’t do so by pivoting the organisation (rather by closing it down, or finding others to staff it). On this understanding, Giving What We Can is both run by individuals who are cause neutral, and (separately) is cause neutral as an organisation.
Yep, we’re just using different definitions. I find your definition a bit confusing, but I admit that it seems fairly common in EA.
For what it’s worth, I think some of the confusion might be caused by my definition creeping into your writing sometimes. For example, in your next post (http://effective-altruism.com/ea/wp/why_poverty/):
“Given that Giving What We Can is cause neutral, why do we recommend exclusively poverty eradication charities, and focus on our website and materials on poverty? There are three main reasons …”
If we’re really using your definition, then that’s a pretty silly question. It’s like saying “If David is really cause neutral, then why is he focused on animals?” or “If Jeff is cause neutral, why does he donate to AMF?” Using your definition, there’s (as we’ve both pointed out) absolutely no tension between focusing on a cause and being cause neutral.
I think even if there’s no tension, there could still be an open question about how you think your actions generate value. For example, cause-neutral-Jeff could be donating to AMF because he thinks it’s the charity with the highest expected value per $, or because he’s risk averse and thinks it’s the best if you’re going for a trade off between expected value and low variance in value per $, or because he wants to encourage other charities to be as transparent and impact focused as AMF. So although it’s not surprising that cause-neutral-Jeff focuses his donations on just one charity, and that it’s AMF, it’s still interesting to hear the answer to ‘why does he donate to AMF?’.
But I agree, it’s difficult not to slide between definitions on a concept like cause neutrality, and I’m sorry I’m not as clear as I’d like to be.
Not really your fault. I’m starting to think the words inherently mean many things and are confusing.
Thanks for the posts.