With Paul’s, the egg certificate solves a problem of “I want humane eggs, but I can buy regular egg + humane cert = humane egg”. Maybe the same would apply for stunned shrimp, eg a supermarket might say “I want to brand my shrimp as stunned for marketing or for commitments; I can buy regular shrimp + stun cert = stunned shrimp”
I am not sure this helps you, but I think the idea is as follows. Some retailers would like to be resposible for electrically stunning more shrimp, but have suppliers which are not willing to do so. Those retailers could buy stunning credits as a way of certifying they have been responsible for electrically stunning more shrimp by paying other suppliers to do so. These suppliers may initially be uncertain about whether those retailers will buy their stunning credits, so SWP commiting to buying their credits would make them more willing to electrically stun more shrimp.
Apologies for all the confusion here—in terms of the idea I’m presenting in the post I think Vasco has done a really great job of summarising the idea above.
But I think the conversation above has helped me recognise a distinction that I don’t think I’d articulated particularly well in my post, which is that I see a difference between the application of credits for contexts like shrimp stunning, and the wider application of credits for animal welfare more broadly:
As a transition tool(as in shrimp stunning credits) - In the case of offsetting “bad” practices, credits aren’t intended to be very valuable, just a way to unblock logistical issues of transitioning a supply chain. Ultimately we want a situation where no-one is buying stunning credits because they’ve all directly transitioned their supply chains. (Again, I think Vasco actually does a great job of outlining my sense of how this would work without increasing shrimp production in his comment below).
As a tool to put a price on positive welfare (similar to Paul Christiano’s Demand Offsetting proposal—thanks @Austin! I hadn’t read this article before) - In cases of trying to optimise for “good” practices (where an improvement could lead to net positive lives for farmed animals), I wanted to paint a picture of a world where credits could be used to create lasting mechanisms that financially incentivise these welfare improvements.
Also, I’ve just realised that I’ve referenced @Vasco Grilo🔸’s comments a few times in this reply to help clarify my thinking—just wanted to say that I really appreciate your help in articulating the points I wanted to make!
Also, I’ve just realised that I’ve referenced @Vasco Grilo🔸’s comments a few times in this reply to help clarify my thinking—just wanted to say that I really appreciate your help in articulating the points I wanted to make!
I’m also not sure if this is what SWP is going for, but the entire proposal reminds me of Paul Christiano’s on humane egg offsets, which I’ve long been fond of: https://sideways-view.com/2021/03/21/robust-egg-offsetting/
With Paul’s, the egg certificate solves a problem of “I want humane eggs, but I can buy regular egg + humane cert = humane egg”. Maybe the same would apply for stunned shrimp, eg a supermarket might say “I want to brand my shrimp as stunned for marketing or for commitments; I can buy regular shrimp + stun cert = stunned shrimp”
Hi Angelina and Austin,
I am not sure this helps you, but I think the idea is as follows. Some retailers would like to be resposible for electrically stunning more shrimp, but have suppliers which are not willing to do so. Those retailers could buy stunning credits as a way of certifying they have been responsible for electrically stunning more shrimp by paying other suppliers to do so. These suppliers may initially be uncertain about whether those retailers will buy their stunning credits, so SWP commiting to buying their credits would make them more willing to electrically stun more shrimp.
Hi Angelina, Austin, and Vasco :)
Apologies for all the confusion here—in terms of the idea I’m presenting in the post I think Vasco has done a really great job of summarising the idea above.
But I think the conversation above has helped me recognise a distinction that I don’t think I’d articulated particularly well in my post, which is that I see a difference between the application of credits for contexts like shrimp stunning, and the wider application of credits for animal welfare more broadly:
As a transition tool (as in shrimp stunning credits) - In the case of offsetting “bad” practices, credits aren’t intended to be very valuable, just a way to unblock logistical issues of transitioning a supply chain. Ultimately we want a situation where no-one is buying stunning credits because they’ve all directly transitioned their supply chains. (Again, I think Vasco actually does a great job of outlining my sense of how this would work without increasing shrimp production in his comment below).
As a tool to put a price on positive welfare (similar to Paul Christiano’s Demand Offsetting proposal—thanks @Austin! I hadn’t read this article before) - In cases of trying to optimise for “good” practices (where an improvement could lead to net positive lives for farmed animals), I wanted to paint a picture of a world where credits could be used to create lasting mechanisms that financially incentivise these welfare improvements.
Also, I’ve just realised that I’ve referenced @Vasco Grilo🔸’s comments a few times in this reply to help clarify my thinking—just wanted to say that I really appreciate your help in articulating the points I wanted to make!
Thanks, Aaron!