Although this is getting downvotes I do find it interesting at least in that it points out that at least one local group (and so probably more) are operating in ways that turn off interested folks. Unfortunately we don’t know which group, although I encourage the poster to reach out to someone at CEA and maybe they can look into it and see if there is anything they can do to help this group improve (if that is indeed appropriate) as part of their community-building efforts.
But I think it’s worth highlighting that here we have someone who care about about EA that they came here to make a post about how frustrated they are with their experience with EA! I think that points out that there is likely some opportunity to do better embedded in this!
What kind of activities would you like your local group to offer and what is stopping you from implementing these changes (within or even outside of the local group)? This is meant to be an honest question. Maybe other people could help you (from CEA, from other groups, people here in the forum… ).
Great Question. I just think that along with the social aspect of a local group, the group should mainly provide feedback and help. I have of course tried to speak about what I do to improve the world we live in.
The problem really is that (at least within this group) new ideas are extremely rare and do not get a lot of reception. It is more like a echo chamber of confirmation for the group members. I am very unsure wether I should bother CEA with this since it might waste their time as well.
On the one hand I empathise with your situation – (seemingly) interested in the guiding principles and the core idea and put off by other aspiring EAs in your immediate vicinity. On the other hand, I don’t see your situation as generalisable to EA as a whole and very contrary to most experiences on conferences, in local groups etc (e.g. DGB is neither bible-like, nor an EA-blueprint imho).
Your title’s “why” seems to be solely based on a small sample of local EAs and the “how” is just a ‘really think about how much good the actions you take do’?
You could’ve addressed your local group directly, or started separate events or meet-ups meeting your standards (which is something people did before and which is encouraged as to circumvent lock-in). You could’ve been more careful with the generalisations and written a caveat on how to not run a local group as to not put off newcomers. But in this format, you don’t really provide a differentiated critique and I’m not really sure where you’re going with this post. Hence a downvote.
It is true that my experience comes from only one local group and it is great to hear that this does not necessarily extent to others. I just felt that the cause of all this is not the group but rather how EA-culture is set up. Therefore, it would not surprise me to see those problems elsewhere.
As to “how”, calculating your actions is all it takes.
Starting a separate event or group is a nice idea. Thank you !
Thanks for sharing. Probably a bit too cynical for my taste (e.g. you mention many of them are vegan, which may not be the most effective thing you can do, but certainly is evidence for them going out of their way to live in line with their values, yet regarding donating 10% being “unpopular (I wonder why)” you seem to imply they wouldn’t be open to any kind of sacrifice), but I do believe I’ve at least seen a few of these tendencies in others as well as myself, and it makes sense to look out for them.
Also I found your remark on the 10% number rarely being questioned somewhat enlightening, as I myself haven’t done so I’m afraid. Maybe it’s a bit similar to vegetarianism and veganism which are two comparably crowded spots on a continuum of ways to eat. These are easy categories, and once you’re in one of them, it’s easy to communicate it to others and has a clear effect on your self image, i.e. thinking to yourself as “a vegetarian” instead of “<insert random complicated formula of how to evaluate which being you eat and which you don’t”>. Plus it probably works better as a potential role model for others.
With donating 10% (esp. if in combination with the giving what we can pledge) you also end up in such a distinct category. For people who donate less it’s a nice (albeit arguably arbitrary) ideal to look up to. For people who’ve reached it it certainly makes sense to grow beyond it. Although I can imagine people wanting to do good primarily via their career, and donating 10% simply being sort of their baseline, and maybe a way of signalling to the outside world that they’re really living what they preach and as such gaining more credibility. And for signalling purposes, which aren’t inherently bad or anything, it makes sense to settle on a nice round number.
Although this is getting downvotes I do find it interesting at least in that it points out that at least one local group (and so probably more) are operating in ways that turn off interested folks. Unfortunately we don’t know which group, although I encourage the poster to reach out to someone at CEA and maybe they can look into it and see if there is anything they can do to help this group improve (if that is indeed appropriate) as part of their community-building efforts.
But I think it’s worth highlighting that here we have someone who care about about EA that they came here to make a post about how frustrated they are with their experience with EA! I think that points out that there is likely some opportunity to do better embedded in this!
What kind of activities would you like your local group to offer and what is stopping you from implementing these changes (within or even outside of the local group)? This is meant to be an honest question. Maybe other people could help you (from CEA, from other groups, people here in the forum… ).
Great Question. I just think that along with the social aspect of a local group, the group should mainly provide feedback and help. I have of course tried to speak about what I do to improve the world we live in.
The problem really is that (at least within this group) new ideas are extremely rare and do not get a lot of reception. It is more like a echo chamber of confirmation for the group members. I am very unsure wether I should bother CEA with this since it might waste their time as well.
On the one hand I empathise with your situation – (seemingly) interested in the guiding principles and the core idea and put off by other aspiring EAs in your immediate vicinity. On the other hand, I don’t see your situation as generalisable to EA as a whole and very contrary to most experiences on conferences, in local groups etc (e.g. DGB is neither bible-like, nor an EA-blueprint imho).
Your title’s “why” seems to be solely based on a small sample of local EAs and the “how” is just a ‘really think about how much good the actions you take do’?
You could’ve addressed your local group directly, or started separate events or meet-ups meeting your standards (which is something people did before and which is encouraged as to circumvent lock-in). You could’ve been more careful with the generalisations and written a caveat on how to not run a local group as to not put off newcomers. But in this format, you don’t really provide a differentiated critique and I’m not really sure where you’re going with this post. Hence a downvote.
It is true that my experience comes from only one local group and it is great to hear that this does not necessarily extent to others. I just felt that the cause of all this is not the group but rather how EA-culture is set up. Therefore, it would not surprise me to see those problems elsewhere.
As to “how”, calculating your actions is all it takes.
Starting a separate event or group is a nice idea. Thank you !
Thanks for sharing. Probably a bit too cynical for my taste (e.g. you mention many of them are vegan, which may not be the most effective thing you can do, but certainly is evidence for them going out of their way to live in line with their values, yet regarding donating 10% being “unpopular (I wonder why)” you seem to imply they wouldn’t be open to any kind of sacrifice), but I do believe I’ve at least seen a few of these tendencies in others as well as myself, and it makes sense to look out for them.
Also I found your remark on the 10% number rarely being questioned somewhat enlightening, as I myself haven’t done so I’m afraid. Maybe it’s a bit similar to vegetarianism and veganism which are two comparably crowded spots on a continuum of ways to eat. These are easy categories, and once you’re in one of them, it’s easy to communicate it to others and has a clear effect on your self image, i.e. thinking to yourself as “a vegetarian” instead of “<insert random complicated formula of how to evaluate which being you eat and which you don’t”>. Plus it probably works better as a potential role model for others.
With donating 10% (esp. if in combination with the giving what we can pledge) you also end up in such a distinct category. For people who donate less it’s a nice (albeit arguably arbitrary) ideal to look up to. For people who’ve reached it it certainly makes sense to grow beyond it. Although I can imagine people wanting to do good primarily via their career, and donating 10% simply being sort of their baseline, and maybe a way of signalling to the outside world that they’re really living what they preach and as such gaining more credibility. And for signalling purposes, which aren’t inherently bad or anything, it makes sense to settle on a nice round number.
I don’t think this post actually is anonymous
“Wischedag” isn’t really a last name and alliterates with “Waschke”. “Hans” is a german placeholder name.
Looks like it is. Waschke-Wischedag already *sounds* like a made-up German name and googling confirmed that.