This is weird to me. There are so many instances of posts on this forum having a “strong polarizing effect… [consuming] a lot of the community’s attention, and [leading] to emotionally charged arguments.” The several posts about Nonlinear last year strike me as a glaring example of this.
US presidential candidates’ positions on EA issues are more important to EA—and our ability to make progress on these issues—than niche interpersonal disputes affecting a handful of people. In short, it seems like posts about politics are ostensibly being held to a higher standard than other posts. I do not think this double standard is conducive to healthy discourse or better positions the EA community to achieve its goals.
I agree that this is inconsistent (looks like Ben’s Nonlinear post is front page). But my conclusion is that community drama should also be made less visible except to those who opt in, not vice versa. The separate section for community posts was a decent start
No shade to the mods, but I’m just kind of bearish on mods’ ability to fairly determine what issues are “difficult to discuss rationally,” just because I think this is really hard and inevitably going to be subject to bias. (The lack of moderation around the Nonlinear posts, Manifest posts, Time article on sexual harassment, and so on makes me think this standard is hard to enforce consistently.) Accordingly, I would favor relying on community voting to determine what posts/comments are valuable and constructive, except in rare cases. (Obviously, this isn’t a perfect solution either, but it at least moves away from the arbitrariness of the “difficult to discuss rationally” standard.)
This seems a question of what the policy is, not of judgement re how to apply it, in my opinion.
The three examples you gave obviously are in the category of “controversial community drama that will draw a lot of attention and strong feelings”, and I trust the mod’s ability to notice this. The question is whether the default policy is to make such things personal blog posts. I personally think this would be a good policy, and that anything in this category is difficult to discuss rationally. I do also consider the community pane a weaker form of low visibility, so there’s something here already, but I would advocate for a stronger policy.
Another category is “anything about partisan US politics”, which I don’t think is that hard to identify, is clearly hard to discuss rationally, and in my opinion is reasonable to have a policy of lowering the visibility of.
I don’t trust karma as a mechanism, because if the post is something that people have strong feelings about, and many of those feelings are positive (or at least, righteous anger style feelings), then posts often get high karma. Eg I think the Nonlinear posts got a ton of attention, in my opinion were quite unproductive and distracting, got very high karma, and if they had been less visible I think this would have been good
Upvoted, but I don’t think one could develop and even-handedly enforce a rule on community-health disputes that didn’t drive out content that (a) needed to be here, because it was very specifically related to this community or an adjacent one, and (b) called for action by this community. So I think those factors warrant treating community-health dispute content as frontpage content, even though it lets a lot of suboptimal content slip through.
I think you may have a point on “positions on EA issues” narrowly defined—but that is going to be a tough boundary to enforce. Once someone moves to the implied conclusion of “vote for X,” then commenters will understandably feel that all the reasons not to vote for X are fair commentary whether or not they involve “positions on EA issues.” [ETA: I say narrowly defined because content about how so-and-so is a fascist, or mentally unstable, or what have you is not exactly in short supply. I have little reason to believe that anyone is going to change their minds about such things from reading discussions on the Forum.]
There’s also a cost to having a bunch of partisan political content—the vast majority of which would swing in one direction for the US—showing up when people come to EA’s flagship public square. We have to work with whoever wins, and tying ourselves to one team or the other more than has already happened poses some considerable costs. There is much, much less broader risk on community-health disputes like Nonlinear (one can simply choose not to read them).
Yeah, just to be clear, I am not arguing that the “topics that are difficult to discuss rationally” standard should be applied to posts about community events, but instead that there shouldn’t be a carveout for political issues specifically. I don’t think political issues are harder to discuss rationally or less important.
This is weird to me. There are so many instances of posts on this forum having a “strong polarizing effect… [consuming] a lot of the community’s attention, and [leading] to emotionally charged arguments.” The several posts about Nonlinear last year strike me as a glaring example of this.
US presidential candidates’ positions on EA issues are more important to EA—and our ability to make progress on these issues—than niche interpersonal disputes affecting a handful of people. In short, it seems like posts about politics are ostensibly being held to a higher standard than other posts. I do not think this double standard is conducive to healthy discourse or better positions the EA community to achieve its goals.
I agree that this is inconsistent (looks like Ben’s Nonlinear post is front page). But my conclusion is that community drama should also be made less visible except to those who opt in, not vice versa. The separate section for community posts was a decent start
No shade to the mods, but I’m just kind of bearish on mods’ ability to fairly determine what issues are “difficult to discuss rationally,” just because I think this is really hard and inevitably going to be subject to bias. (The lack of moderation around the Nonlinear posts, Manifest posts, Time article on sexual harassment, and so on makes me think this standard is hard to enforce consistently.) Accordingly, I would favor relying on community voting to determine what posts/comments are valuable and constructive, except in rare cases. (Obviously, this isn’t a perfect solution either, but it at least moves away from the arbitrariness of the “difficult to discuss rationally” standard.)
This seems a question of what the policy is, not of judgement re how to apply it, in my opinion.
The three examples you gave obviously are in the category of “controversial community drama that will draw a lot of attention and strong feelings”, and I trust the mod’s ability to notice this. The question is whether the default policy is to make such things personal blog posts. I personally think this would be a good policy, and that anything in this category is difficult to discuss rationally. I do also consider the community pane a weaker form of low visibility, so there’s something here already, but I would advocate for a stronger policy.
Another category is “anything about partisan US politics”, which I don’t think is that hard to identify, is clearly hard to discuss rationally, and in my opinion is reasonable to have a policy of lowering the visibility of.
I don’t trust karma as a mechanism, because if the post is something that people have strong feelings about, and many of those feelings are positive (or at least, righteous anger style feelings), then posts often get high karma. Eg I think the Nonlinear posts got a ton of attention, in my opinion were quite unproductive and distracting, got very high karma, and if they had been less visible I think this would have been good
Upvoted, but I don’t think one could develop and even-handedly enforce a rule on community-health disputes that didn’t drive out content that (a) needed to be here, because it was very specifically related to this community or an adjacent one, and (b) called for action by this community. So I think those factors warrant treating community-health dispute content as frontpage content, even though it lets a lot of suboptimal content slip through.
I think you may have a point on “positions on EA issues” narrowly defined—but that is going to be a tough boundary to enforce. Once someone moves to the implied conclusion of “vote for X,” then commenters will understandably feel that all the reasons not to vote for X are fair commentary whether or not they involve “positions on EA issues.” [ETA: I say narrowly defined because content about how so-and-so is a fascist, or mentally unstable, or what have you is not exactly in short supply. I have little reason to believe that anyone is going to change their minds about such things from reading discussions on the Forum.]
There’s also a cost to having a bunch of partisan political content—the vast majority of which would swing in one direction for the US—showing up when people come to EA’s flagship public square. We have to work with whoever wins, and tying ourselves to one team or the other more than has already happened poses some considerable costs. There is much, much less broader risk on community-health disputes like Nonlinear (one can simply choose not to read them).
Yeah, just to be clear, I am not arguing that the “topics that are difficult to discuss rationally” standard should be applied to posts about community events, but instead that there shouldn’t be a carveout for political issues specifically. I don’t think political issues are harder to discuss rationally or less important.