I tentatively think this is wrong, and calling it EVF is both clearer, and important in ensuring people understand what happened.
If I say “Google is manipulating results to benefit some groups over others,” you’d interpret that differently than if I said “Google maps directions is manipulating results to benefit some groups over others.” And if I said “Google invests heavily in AI safety” you’d think I meant something different than Deepmind’s safety research.
By saying “CEA bought a castle,” they are implying (or incorrectly inferring) that the organization that people donate to named CEA is the same as the one that bought the castle. Yes, the two organizations are related, but phrasing it that way seems pretty actively misleading, and disambiguating seems critical.
they are implying (or incorrectly inferring) that the organization that people donate to named CEA is the same as the one that bought the castle
The organization that people donate to is the same as the one that bought the manor house. CEA has no legal existence distinct from EVF; any distinction between the two is purely a matter of internal organization within the legal entity now called EVF (but called CEA at the time of the purchase).
(Also, I’d be happier if people here wouldn’t amplify the “castle” meme. It’s not a castle.)
When the building (it’s not a castle) was bought (in early 2021), the name of the organisation that bought it was CEA. The change at some point after that to Effective Ventures. It’s unclear how much governance-wise a separate ‘umbrella CEA’ existed to a ‘core CEA’ at the point of the purchase, but even now, CEA does not seem to have a board separate from Effective Ventures, and it’s ultimately the same people that hare fully responsible and it’s legally the same organisation that people donated to (unclear what kind of restrictions could put on their donations at which point in time). Note that this is different from your Google/Deepmind example, as both of these are separte legal entities (albeit owned by the same umbrella company).
That people should use “EVF” to refer to the umbrella organization and “CEA” to refer to the community building org when talking about things happening after the rebranding is uncontroversial, no? My comment isn’t “go ahead and keep saying CEA when you mean the umbrella org” but instead that (a) what phrasing to use for events before the rebranding isn’t obvious and (b) because rebranding is hard it’s not surprising some people will still call the umbrella organization “CEA”.
Your “Google” examples don’t feel clarifying to me because they’re in the present tense and about things that haven’t recently gone through rebranding, and so avoid both (a) and (b).
The way Owen started his comment, by explicitly talking about the two ’CEA’s, is great, BTW.
I think we mostly agree—but I would claim that if you’re interested in clarity, calling the umbrella organization pre-renaming “CEA” is confusing, and that if you’re not calling it EVF, you should at least disambiguate clearly.
I tentatively think this is wrong, and calling it EVF is both clearer, and important in ensuring people understand what happened.
If I say “Google is manipulating results to benefit some groups over others,” you’d interpret that differently than if I said “Google maps directions is manipulating results to benefit some groups over others.” And if I said “Google invests heavily in AI safety” you’d think I meant something different than Deepmind’s safety research.
By saying “CEA bought a castle,” they are implying (or incorrectly inferring) that the organization that people donate to named CEA is the same as the one that bought the castle. Yes, the two organizations are related, but phrasing it that way seems pretty actively misleading, and disambiguating seems critical.
The organization that people donate to is the same as the one that bought the manor house. CEA has no legal existence distinct from EVF; any distinction between the two is purely a matter of internal organization within the legal entity now called EVF (but called CEA at the time of the purchase).
(Also, I’d be happier if people here wouldn’t amplify the “castle” meme. It’s not a castle.)
When the building (it’s not a castle) was bought (in early 2021), the name of the organisation that bought it was CEA. The change at some point after that to Effective Ventures. It’s unclear how much governance-wise a separate ‘umbrella CEA’ existed to a ‘core CEA’ at the point of the purchase, but even now, CEA does not seem to have a board separate from Effective Ventures, and it’s ultimately the same people that hare fully responsible and it’s legally the same organisation that people donated to (unclear what kind of restrictions could put on their donations at which point in time). Note that this is different from your Google/Deepmind example, as both of these are separte legal entities (albeit owned by the same umbrella company).
That people should use “EVF” to refer to the umbrella organization and “CEA” to refer to the community building org when talking about things happening after the rebranding is uncontroversial, no? My comment isn’t “go ahead and keep saying CEA when you mean the umbrella org” but instead that (a) what phrasing to use for events before the rebranding isn’t obvious and (b) because rebranding is hard it’s not surprising some people will still call the umbrella organization “CEA”.
Your “Google” examples don’t feel clarifying to me because they’re in the present tense and about things that haven’t recently gone through rebranding, and so avoid both (a) and (b).
The way Owen started his comment, by explicitly talking about the two ’CEA’s, is great, BTW.
I think we mostly agree—but I would claim that if you’re interested in clarity, calling the umbrella organization pre-renaming “CEA” is confusing, and that if you’re not calling it EVF, you should at least disambiguate clearly.