My only update is that I think this community (based on the EA forum only) is under-rating the PR damage from all of this. For a lot of people SBF =~EA, and this interview does not appear to be playing well (source: twitter, group chats etc.). I’m not sure what to do about it but I thought I’d share that observation from outside the EA/LW bubble. A few other thoughts:
Unfortunately, I think SBF’s comments to Vox about ethics (“so the ethics stuff—mostly a front?”) have been misread to mean that his entire earning to give / EA worldview was somehow a cynical sham. While I think FTX’s downfall indeed involved some risky and unethical business dealings, I don’t think same is saying anything like this (obviously). In fact, he may have even EV’d himself into taking some of these risks in service of his earnest philanthropic goals (epistemic status: who knows).
Some people who really don’t like EA, and longtermism in particular, are using the FTX downfall as a sort of proof that EA exists to launder the reputations of the wealthy. While I think these arguments have little merit, they are getting a lot of play in left-leaning circles and I think have the potential to do damage, especially to people with limited exposure to EA who are “getable” in the sense that they care about similar things to EAs and may now be less likely to work on / support EA cause areas.
This seems weird. I think PR wise, our biggest worry is what the first impressions of newcomers will be, and the vast, the vast majority of people haven’t heard of it yet. I worry more about what the first articles on Google are going to be, rather than how we are actively being perceived right now.
I’m still worried, but from my perspective general attitudes haven’t changed that much yet and at most, people with pre-existing negative beliefs about EA have seen those confirmed.
Plus, I don’t think we’re under-rating the damage, it’s just that there doesn’t seem like there’s much we can do.
(I should probably say my view is quite partial: I’m an organizer for a Spanish-speaking group and for the most part, the situation has seemed distant)
Maybe this won’t matter for the marginal Berkley EA Club joiner, but I’m worried this will do some harm for donors and non-EAs that EA orgs have to work with in order to be successfull. EA orgs often/usually have to interact with the outside world, sometimes with fairly establishment/conservative organizations who have leaders who read the NYT and WSJ.
Maybe I’m raising this alarm because I experience this directly daily working in finance with a bunch of people who are on boards of foundations and nonprofits who now have a very negative view of EA. Maybe this is a niche concern and it doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things.
Not being totally direct on his parents’ real estate acquisitions. These are a bad look even if you buy the argument that the only way to find space in the Bahamas is to buy a few hundred million of extreme lux resort condos. I know a small handful of very wealthy people who would be able to immediately talk about how they have financed / held their RE assets.
Not being totally direct on his relationship to Alameda: the guy lived with principals of and founded/owned 90% of the firm which was also located in the Bahamas (and maybe dated the CEO?). I have no more intel than what’s available in the press but it just does not read as truthful as an outsider.
Drug use: who cares, but it has become a meme and I think he would have been better served to say: ‘yeah, I have a special patch-based scrip for ADHD meds I’ve used throughout my career—not sorry about that’.
My only update is that I think this community (based on the EA forum only) is under-rating the PR damage from all of this. For a lot of people SBF =~EA, and this interview does not appear to be playing well (source: twitter, group chats etc.). I’m not sure what to do about it but I thought I’d share that observation from outside the EA/LW bubble. A few other thoughts:
Unfortunately, I think SBF’s comments to Vox about ethics (“so the ethics stuff—mostly a front?”) have been misread to mean that his entire earning to give / EA worldview was somehow a cynical sham. While I think FTX’s downfall indeed involved some risky and unethical business dealings, I don’t think same is saying anything like this (obviously). In fact, he may have even EV’d himself into taking some of these risks in service of his earnest philanthropic goals (epistemic status: who knows).
Some people who really don’t like EA, and longtermism in particular, are using the FTX downfall as a sort of proof that EA exists to launder the reputations of the wealthy. While I think these arguments have little merit, they are getting a lot of play in left-leaning circles and I think have the potential to do damage, especially to people with limited exposure to EA who are “getable” in the sense that they care about similar things to EAs and may now be less likely to work on / support EA cause areas.
This seems weird. I think PR wise, our biggest worry is what the first impressions of newcomers will be, and the vast, the vast majority of people haven’t heard of it yet. I worry more about what the first articles on Google are going to be, rather than how we are actively being perceived right now.
I’m still worried, but from my perspective general attitudes haven’t changed that much yet and at most, people with pre-existing negative beliefs about EA have seen those confirmed.
Plus, I don’t think we’re under-rating the damage, it’s just that there doesn’t seem like there’s much we can do.
(I should probably say my view is quite partial: I’m an organizer for a Spanish-speaking group and for the most part, the situation has seemed distant)
It seems like we’re splitting hairs. What I’m saying is that millions and millions of people are hearing about EA for the first time via articles like this: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/01/technology/sam-bankman-fried-crypto-artificial-intelligence.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
Maybe this won’t matter for the marginal Berkley EA Club joiner, but I’m worried this will do some harm for donors and non-EAs that EA orgs have to work with in order to be successfull. EA orgs often/usually have to interact with the outside world, sometimes with fairly establishment/conservative organizations who have leaders who read the NYT and WSJ.
Maybe I’m raising this alarm because I experience this directly daily working in finance with a bunch of people who are on boards of foundations and nonprofits who now have a very negative view of EA. Maybe this is a niche concern and it doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things.
Things that I think played particularly badly:
Not being totally direct on his parents’ real estate acquisitions. These are a bad look even if you buy the argument that the only way to find space in the Bahamas is to buy a few hundred million of extreme lux resort condos. I know a small handful of very wealthy people who would be able to immediately talk about how they have financed / held their RE assets.
Not being totally direct on his relationship to Alameda: the guy lived with principals of and founded/owned 90% of the firm which was also located in the Bahamas (and maybe dated the CEO?). I have no more intel than what’s available in the press but it just does not read as truthful as an outsider.
Drug use: who cares, but it has become a meme and I think he would have been better served to say: ‘yeah, I have a special patch-based scrip for ADHD meds I’ve used throughout my career—not sorry about that’.