David is probably thinking more about the French revolution, or the Great Leap forward.
It is difficult to answer this without getting into detail on these issues:
The French revolution was initially driven by moderate reformers, but spiraled into dysfunction because no revolutionary institution could provide stability. Once you deleted all of the original institutions (“smashed all the working pieces” as David said), leadership fell to power-seeking fanatics with crazy epistemics. There was also fear from both internal and outside forces (Vendee, First Coalition) that constantly disrupted governance and fed extreme elements.
The Great Leap Forward was driven by a central leadership with a sort of magical thinking: they had contempt for normal material limits and conventional wisdom, and was certain that productivity would be massively unlocked by smashing landholdings and moving people in communes where they work together (“smashed all the working pieces”). It is grotesque now, but the very low industrial capital of China and the impressive success of the 1st five year plan, makes judgement look better. It is also worth comparing Mao’s epistemics with beliefs in today’s tech boom (“move fast and break things”, techno-optimism) that seems to have another explanation in regulatory capture and loose capital markets.
In both situations above, the leaders were obsessed with the systems they opposed. They were certain if you smashed everything, things would be fixed, but they weren’t literate in the nuances of how politics or industry functions. All the leaders were brought to heel at huge human cost, and the mundane, conventional processes they hated were essential in restoring order.
Wasn’t the US basically created from scratch
The “American Revolution” was elite lead, they were literally Harvard, Yale, Columbia and Princeton educated dudes. Their motivation was almost literally not wanting to pay taxes, and there is a credible subtext that the colonials were motivated by British colonial restrictions against taking native land—the natives were British subjects too, and the British tried to keep the colonials in front of the Appalachians. (Note that the idea of this subtext comes from established scholars and predates the current wave of social justice and native issues). The American revolution only had to deal with an awkward, trans-Atlantic British response. There was no san-culottes or mass starvation, keeping an orderly, continuous leadership.
and now is arguably the most successful country in the world?
From my guess, every domestic institution in the US basically existed before and after the revolution. The main novelty of the revolution was the creation a new “state” from the British colonies (the quotes are not necessarily a sneer, there is genuine uncertainty about what the US was supposed to be). The founding fathers were only able to do this incompletely, resulting in a violent civil war. Even after adjustments, American political institutions are suboptimal compared to other western democracies and the dysfunctions plague us to this day.
(Honestly, this isn’t a very virtuous comment and I hope some more educated person stomps all over all this if it’s wrong.)
I agree with this. I was just pushing back against the “somewhere between never-before-done and impossible” characterization. Mutiny definitely goes wrong more often than not, and just blindly smashing things without understanding how they work, and with no real plan for how to replace them is a recipe for disaster.
I’d also point out that the US is successful in many, many ways, but it’s hard to argue that US government is significantly better than the UK, most of Europe, etc. And that’s what was smashed and rebuilt along slightly different lines.
David is probably thinking more about the French revolution, or the Great Leap forward.
It is difficult to answer this without getting into detail on these issues:
The French revolution was initially driven by moderate reformers, but spiraled into dysfunction because no revolutionary institution could provide stability. Once you deleted all of the original institutions (“smashed all the working pieces” as David said), leadership fell to power-seeking fanatics with crazy epistemics. There was also fear from both internal and outside forces (Vendee, First Coalition) that constantly disrupted governance and fed extreme elements.
The Great Leap Forward was driven by a central leadership with a sort of magical thinking: they had contempt for normal material limits and conventional wisdom, and was certain that productivity would be massively unlocked by smashing landholdings and moving people in communes where they work together (“smashed all the working pieces”). It is grotesque now, but the very low industrial capital of China and the impressive success of the 1st five year plan, makes judgement look better. It is also worth comparing Mao’s epistemics with beliefs in today’s tech boom (“move fast and break things”, techno-optimism) that seems to have another explanation in regulatory capture and loose capital markets.
In both situations above, the leaders were obsessed with the systems they opposed. They were certain if you smashed everything, things would be fixed, but they weren’t literate in the nuances of how politics or industry functions. All the leaders were brought to heel at huge human cost, and the mundane, conventional processes they hated were essential in restoring order.
The “American Revolution” was elite lead, they were literally Harvard, Yale, Columbia and Princeton educated dudes. Their motivation was almost literally not wanting to pay taxes, and there is a credible subtext that the colonials were motivated by British colonial restrictions against taking native land—the natives were British subjects too, and the British tried to keep the colonials in front of the Appalachians. (Note that the idea of this subtext comes from established scholars and predates the current wave of social justice and native issues). The American revolution only had to deal with an awkward, trans-Atlantic British response. There was no san-culottes or mass starvation, keeping an orderly, continuous leadership.
From my guess, every domestic institution in the US basically existed before and after the revolution. The main novelty of the revolution was the creation a new “state” from the British colonies (the quotes are not necessarily a sneer, there is genuine uncertainty about what the US was supposed to be). The founding fathers were only able to do this incompletely, resulting in a violent civil war. Even after adjustments, American political institutions are suboptimal compared to other western democracies and the dysfunctions plague us to this day.
(Honestly, this isn’t a very virtuous comment and I hope some more educated person stomps all over all this if it’s wrong.)
I agree with this. I was just pushing back against the “somewhere between never-before-done and impossible” characterization. Mutiny definitely goes wrong more often than not, and just blindly smashing things without understanding how they work, and with no real plan for how to replace them is a recipe for disaster.
I’d also point out that the US is successful in many, many ways, but it’s hard to argue that US government is significantly better than the UK, most of Europe, etc. And that’s what was smashed and rebuilt along slightly different lines.