When I say “repeating talking points”, I am thinking of:
Using cached phrases and not explaining where they come from.
Conversations which go like
EA: We need to think about expanding our moral circle, because animals may be morally relevant.
Non-EA: I don’t think animals are morally relevant though.
EA: OK, but if animals are morally relevant, then quadrillions of lives are at stake.
(2) is kind of a caricature as written, but I have witnessed conversations like these in EA spaces.
My evidence for this claim comes form my personal experience watching EAs talk to non-EAs, and listen to non-EAs talk about their perception of EA. The total number of data points in this pool is ~20. I would say that I don’t have exceptionally many EA contacts, compared to most EAs, but I do particularly make an effort to seek out social spaces where non-EAs are looking to learn about EA. Thinking back on these experiences, and what conversations went well and what ones didn’t, is what inspired me to write this short post.
Ultimately my anecdotal data can’t make any statistical statements about the EA community at large. The purpose of this post is to more describe two mental models of EA alignment and advocate for the “skill mastery” perspective.
I think both (1) and (2) are sufficiently mild/non-nefarious versions of “repeating talking points” that they’re very different from what people might imagine when they hear “techniques associated with cult indoctrination”—different enough that the latter phrase seems misleading.
(E.g., at least to my ears, the original phrase suggests that the communication techniques you’ve seen involve intentional manipulation and are rare; in contrast, (1) and (2) sound to me like very commonplace forms of ineffective (rather than intentionally manipulative) communication.)
(As I mentioned, I’m sympathetic to the broader purpose of the post, and my comment is just picking on that one phrase; I agree with and appreciate your points that communication along the lines of (1) and (2) happen, that they can be examples of poor communication / of not building from where others are coming from, and that the “skill mastery” perspective could help with this.)
When I say “repeating talking points”, I am thinking of:
Using cached phrases and not explaining where they come from.
Conversations which go like
EA: We need to think about expanding our moral circle, because animals may be morally relevant.
Non-EA: I don’t think animals are morally relevant though.
EA: OK, but if animals are morally relevant, then quadrillions of lives are at stake.
(2) is kind of a caricature as written, but I have witnessed conversations like these in EA spaces.
My evidence for this claim comes form my personal experience watching EAs talk to non-EAs, and listen to non-EAs talk about their perception of EA. The total number of data points in this pool is ~20. I would say that I don’t have exceptionally many EA contacts, compared to most EAs, but I do particularly make an effort to seek out social spaces where non-EAs are looking to learn about EA. Thinking back on these experiences, and what conversations went well and what ones didn’t, is what inspired me to write this short post.
Ultimately my anecdotal data can’t make any statistical statements about the EA community at large. The purpose of this post is to more describe two mental models of EA alignment and advocate for the “skill mastery” perspective.
I think both (1) and (2) are sufficiently mild/non-nefarious versions of “repeating talking points” that they’re very different from what people might imagine when they hear “techniques associated with cult indoctrination”—different enough that the latter phrase seems misleading.
(E.g., at least to my ears, the original phrase suggests that the communication techniques you’ve seen involve intentional manipulation and are rare; in contrast, (1) and (2) sound to me like very commonplace forms of ineffective (rather than intentionally manipulative) communication.)
(As I mentioned, I’m sympathetic to the broader purpose of the post, and my comment is just picking on that one phrase; I agree with and appreciate your points that communication along the lines of (1) and (2) happen, that they can be examples of poor communication / of not building from where others are coming from, and that the “skill mastery” perspective could help with this.)