Patrick Gruban

Master­mind Groups: A new Peer Sup­port For­mat to help EAs aim higher

Learn­ing from Match­ing Co-Founders for an AI-Align­ment Startup

Get­ting into an EA-al­igned or­gani­sa­tion mid-career

EA Ger­many’s 2023 Re­port, 2024 Plans & Fund­ing Gap

Con­sider Chang­ing Your Fo­rum User­name to Your Real Name

• Patrick Gruban 14 Feb 2023 21:45 UTC

  63 points

  12 ∶ 0

  on: EAs should ‘in­vest to give’. SageWealth makes this eas­ier.

  [Writing this in my personal capacity]

  Thank you for publishing this! As you mentioned, I encouraged you to write this post. Still, I wouldn’t recommend your company to people in the EA community, and I think giving SageWealth a stage at three EAG(x) conferences was wrong.

  For the background: After meeting a team member and seeing that you were presenting at EAGx Berlin and had attended EAG career fairs, I tried to find out more about SageWealth. What I found made me concerned about values, transparency, and your targeting of members of the EA community as potential customers and employers. We spoke at EAGx Berlin (this was before I was offered the position as Co-Director EA Germany) and initially wrote a draft forum post about my concerns that I shelved when you shared the draft of this post.

  I think it’s great that you’re building up a business and plan to donate. Being an entrepreneur myself, I very much appreciate this. Encouraging people to invest in globally diversified investment products is something I also do, and having an easy-to-use product can make the difference between someone thinking about investing and not doing it.

  However, promoting your commercial product or job opportunities within the EA community mixes your intent of donating and the product you sell. The product is similar to others in the market that are less expensive. If someone asks me for advice, I would point them to competitors or would recommend investing in ETFs directly.

  I’m much more excited about people that don’t sell products but educate people to invest. For example, Rebecca Herbst teaches financial literacy and donates all proceeds to The Life You Can Save with her service Yield & Spread.

  I won’t go into details concerning your product. But I do want to point (as I did in the draft you shared with me) out that I find it concerning that your view on nuclear energy and GMOs differ from this post where you say they shouldn’t be excluded and your website, where you describe them as part of “the worst offenders”. Perhaps you have to conceal the truth to sell your product, but then your target market shouldn’t be truth-seeking people in the EA community.

• Patrick Gruban 24 Nov 2021 15:16 UTC

  63 points

  0 ∶ 0

  on: An­nounc­ing our 2021 char­ity recommendations

  Albert Schweitzer Foundation and Good Food Institute were both Top Charities in 2020 and are now neither Top nor Standout Charities. What changed for you to make this update?

  Update 12/​13: ACE has now posted an explanation on their blog stating “The crux of our decision for each organization was related to culture issues that we identified during our evaluation process.”

• Patrick Gruban 26 Apr 2022 12:41 UTC

  53 points

  0 ∶ 0

  on: Mid-ca­reer peo­ple: strongly con­sider switch­ing to EA work

  Thank you so much for writing this up, Ben! There are many things that ring true to me, being in my 40s. I’d like to add other misconceptions I experienced:

  • Misconception: EA is only for young people

    • Reality: Although joining a local group can make you feel as if you’re sticking out age-wise this will change if you join EAG conferences, especially the mid- and late-career meetups there. Conferences are a great place to start meeting people in similar career positions. Also just sending emails to people you are interested in directly often leads to you being able to have a call. The 80k career call is also a good place to get introduced.

  • Misconception: I will be viewed differently because of my age

    • Reality: After overcoming my own fear of being judged for my age I found out that EAs are generally welcoming and open. I now find myself joining EA meetings more often than ones with my former peers because of the shared interest and good discussion culture. I neither see myself as being penalized nor having special privileges for being older. For example, job applications seem very standardized and fair.

  • Misconception: Working for an EA org means moving if I’m not in an existing hub

    • Reality: While some organisations want to have staff on the ground, others are fully or partially remote. With more co-working spaces popping up it may even be possible to join EAs in your city while working remotely for an EA org in your specialist area.

  • Misconception: EA orgs are small and mainly need specialists

    • Reality: While many EA orgs have 5 or fewer employees more and more are getting funding to scale up. This means there is more demand for knowledge around organisation building and scaling as well as additional support staff roles. At EAG London I heard about jobs that hadn’t been published yet and was able to apply. Prior to the conference, I hadn’t even considered these roles as operation roles seemed very limited in scope.

  • Misconception: I can do more good by earning to give

    • Reality: This is really hard to evaluate but after talking to some experienced people at EAG I suspect there are still many people who undervalue their potential for direct work. With new organisations scaling up and the need for bigger projects (“megaprojects”) wanted by funders not being met, I think we’re seeing a skill gap, especially in entrepreneurship and management. Some people should forgo their current income in order to take jobs that funders are very willing to pay.

  Some things that come to mind that might help mid-career people:

  • Meetings/​Calls with people that were in similar situations and are now working in EA-aligned jobs

  • Possibilities to explore EA-work while taking a sabbatical, e.g. by doing research projects in an EA hub, joining an 80k career group for people of the same age, doing skilled volunteering

  • Writeups of more success stories of mid-career people changing jobs

  • Talks from mid-career people in EA-jobs at EA job place groups

  • Retreats for mid-career people interested in switching with speakers that have done the transition

  • More volunteering opportunities that enable getting to know organisations

  I hope to be able to contribute to getting more mid-career people into direct EA work and have offered High Impact Professionals to support them in that area. Additionally, I’m also always happy to chat with people about this and to make introductions.

A BOTEC-Model for Com­par­ing Im­pact Es­ti­ma­tions in Com­mu­nity Building

• Patrick Gruban 15 Oct 2020 9:51 UTC

  43 points

  0 ∶ 0

  in reply to: Jonas V’s comment on: Avoid­ing Mu­nich’s Mis­takes: Ad­vice for CEA and Lo­cal Groups

  As one of the organisers of the EA Munich group this was the first thing I thought of when we heard about the press coverage of Robin Hanson: What can we learn from the EA association of the controversies of Peter Singer. I was thinking of your comment and of Ben Todd’s quote “Once your message is out there, it tends to stick around for years, so if you get the message wrong, you’ve harmed years of future efforts.” I think there is much harm that can be done in canceling but it should be weighed against the potential harm of hurting the movement in a country where values and sentiments can be different than in the english speaking world.

  For me the Robin Hanson talk would have been the first event as a co-organiser and seeing a potential cooperation partner unearthing the negative press about Robin Hanson and telling us that they would not be able to work with us if we hosted him, was an indication that we shouldn’t rush to hold this talk. Oliver Habryka summarised this pretty well:

  Having participated in a debrief meeting for EA Munich, my assessment is indeed that one of the primary reasons the event was cancelled was due to fear of disruptors showing up at the event, similar to how they have done for some events of Peter Singer. Indeed almost all concerns that were brought up during that meeting were concerns of external parties threatening EA Munich, or EA at large, in response to inviting Hanson. There were some minor concerns about Hanson’s views qua his views alone, but basically all organizers who spoke at the debrief I was part of said that they were interested in hearing Robin’s ideas and would have enjoyed participating in an event with him, and were primarily worried about how others would perceive it and react to inviting him.

  I just looked up what I wrote internally after the decision and still think this is a good summary:

  In an ideal world we have known about the issues beforehand, would have talked them through internally and if we had invited him we would have known how to address them in a way that is not harmful to the EA community. However given the short time we saw more risks in alienating people than getting them interested in EA through the talk.

  The monthly talks we host are public and posted on Meetup and Facebook so our audience consists of people who are new to the community. We as EA local groups are the first impression many people get of the community and are the faces of the community in our region so I would argue we should be well prepared and versed in potential controversies before hosting talks especially with prominent people and on a video platform where all statements can be recorded and shared. As a group that had just one female speaker in the last 15 talks I think this is especially the case if press coverage may seem that the speaker has views that may make women feel less welcome.

  At the time it seemed riskier to try to assess and reduce the risks about the potential negative consequences around the talk then to cancel it. However my error was in not assessing risks around signaling in terms of Cancel Culture.

• Patrick Gruban 7 Dec 2023 2:56 UTC

  37 points

  8 ∶ 0

  on: EA thoughts from Is­rael-Ha­mas war

  Thank you for writing and publishing this here, Ezra!

  As I already wrote to you in another channel, first of all, I want to say that I’ve been thinking of all of you I know in the EA Israel team since the terrorist attacks and you and your family after I heard that you were called up to the army reserves. I can’t image what you have been going through. The piece at least gives a glimpse, which I found very valuable to read.

  The piece reminds me of You have more than one goal, and that’s fine in the sense that the acute situation of war, of fearing for the lives of loved ones, is a different bucket to the peacetime situation of impartial altruism.

  A formative experience for me was being part of a student exchange in high school with Israel. Most of our group of Germans lived with Israeli families while I was at a Palestinian’s house. I was able to spend time with Israelis and Palestinians and hear stories of violence and trauma. Since then, I’ve been very sceptical of outsiders trying to weigh in on the conflict, especially one-sided and simplistic statements. I like how you phrased it: “Most of those people have no idea what’s going on, and may be acting against the best interest of the people they claim to care about.”

• Patrick Gruban 3 Apr 2024 18:31 UTC

  34 points

  3 ∶ 0

  on: Pa­trick Gruban has joined the EV UK board

  Please have a low bar for reaching out to me (patrick.gruban@effektiveraltruismus.de or via the forum) if you think there are things the board should be aware of or that EV’s organisations might be missing out on. The actions and inactions of the EV boards, as well as executives of EV and the housed projects, can affect many stakeholders, including employees, volunteers, grantees, funders, contractors, and the many beneficiaries of the projects. I want to make sure that we can take these into account.

• Patrick Gruban 10 May 2022 10:25 UTC

  32 points

  0 ∶ 0

  in reply to: Rob Mitchell’s comment on: EA and the cur­rent fund­ing situation

  I was also surprised to be seeing management and scaling organisations described as “rarely people’s favourite activities”, this seems to be a strong claim. For me, it’s the most motivating activity and I’m trying to find an organisation where I can contribute in this area.

• Patrick Gruban 19 Dec 2023 17:36 UTC

  30 points

  5 ∶ 0

  on: Pa­trick Gruban’s Quick takes

  The time of year when people start wishing each other happy holidays can be challenging for some. At least for me, the contrast between the joyous expectation from the outside and the inner feeling of dread feels especially big and can lead to a sense of solitude. I would like to tell people in the community: “It’s OK to Have Unhappy Holidays”. We’re in this together with many facing challenges like:

  • Solitude: For those who are alone, the emphasis on family and companionship during the holidays can intensify feelings of isolation.

  • Family Dynamics: The loss of parents, whether due to death or estrangement, leaves a void that the holidays can painfully magnify. Similarly, being far from family due to distance or other constraints can evoke a sense of disconnection.

  • Disruption of Routine: The holiday season often disrupts daily routines. For some, this break from normalcy can be unsettling.

  • Missing Friends: Being away from friends or unable to connect during this time can also contribute to feelings of loneliness.

  • Pressure of Expectations: The societal pressure to exchange gifts and prepare lavish meals can be overwhelming, especially for those facing financial or personal challenges.

  • Family Conflicts: Familial tensions or arguments, often swept under the rug, can resurface during gatherings, leading to discomfort and stress.

  • Grieving for Lost Loved Ones: For those mourning the loss of relatives, the festive season can be a poignant reminder of their absence.

  • Challenges of Donations: Deciding where and how much to donate can be stressful, compounded by the expectation to communicate these actions to others

  • Year-End Reflection: The end of the year prompts reflection, which can bring feelings of failure or unmet goals into sharp focus.

  • Seasonal Affectivity: The dark, cold winter days can exacerbate feelings of depression or sadness, a phenomenon known as Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD).

  • Guilt: Guilt can arise from various sources, such as not being able to visit parents or relatives, knowing friends who are grieving or celebrating while others are suffering.

  • Global Context: Awareness of suffering and global risks can cast a shadow over the festive spirit, making it hard to feel joyous.

  • Comparative Unhappiness: Observing others seemingly happy can lead to feelings of inadequacy or the false belief that one must feel joyful.

  It can already help to know that we are not alone in these struggles. And it can help to acknowledge that it’s ok to sometimes feel unhappy. But there are also some other things that might help:

  • Create New Traditions: If old traditions bring sadness, consider creating new ones that better reflect your current situation.

  • Connect Virtually: If you’re far from family or friends, use technology to connect. Video calls or online games can help bridge the distance. Sometimes it just helps to reach out.

  • Reach out to Others: Sometimes friends and acquaintances are going through similar situations and would be happy for you to connect.

  • Focus on Self-Care: Engage in activities that bring you comfort and joy, whether it’s reading, a hobby, or a relaxing bath.

  • Limit Social Media: If seeing others’ holiday experiences makes you feel inadequate, take a break from social media.

  • Seek Support: Don’t hesitate to reach out to friends, support groups, or mental health professionals for support.

  • Exercise and Outdoor Activities: Physical activity, especially outdoors, can improve mood and alleviate symptoms of SAD.

  • Practice Gratitude: Focus on what you are thankful for, even small things, which can shift your perspective.

  • Set Boundaries: It’s okay to say no to events or situations that you know will be stressful or upsetting.

  • Journaling: Writing down your thoughts and feelings can be a therapeutic way to process emotions.

  • Embrace Solitude: If you’re alone, use this time for personal growth or activities you enjoy but usually don’t have time for.

  • Plan Ahead for Difficult Dates: If certain dates are particularly hard, plan activities for those days that you know will be comforting or distracting.

  • Meditation and Relaxation Techniques: Practices like meditation, yoga, or deep breathing can help manage stress and anxiety.

  Sharing your thoughts and experiences in the comments might help others that they are not the only ones struggling.

Con­sid­er­a­tions for EA Con­tent Localisation

Pro­posal for Fore­cast­ing Givewell-Char­ity Im­pact-Metrics

• Patrick Gruban 2 Mar 2022 17:40 UTC

  27 points

  0 ∶ 0

  on: The Fu­ture Fund’s Pro­ject Ideas Competition

  Longtermist risk screening and certification of institutions

  Artificial Intelligence, Biorisk and Recovery from Catastrophe

  Companies, nonprofits and government institutions participate and invest in activities that might significantly increase global catastrophic risk like gain-of-function research or research that might increase the likelihood of unaligned AGI. We’d like to see an organisation that evaluates and proposes policies and practices that should be followed in order to reduce these risks. Institutions that commit to following these practices and submit themselves to independent audits could be certified. This could help investors and funders to screen institutions for potential risks. It could also be used in future corporate campaigns to move companies and investors into adopting responsible practices.

• Patrick Gruban 30 Dec 2021 7:25 UTC

  27 points

  0 ∶ 0

  on: EA/​Ra­tion­al­ist Safety Nets: Promis­ing, but Arduous

  Thank you for the overview! What comes to my mind as similar is the Künstlersozialkasse (KSK) in Germany that is ruled by the special law called Künstlersozialversicherungsgesetz.

  This artist social fund is open to anyone that works self-employed in an artistic job like visual artists, authors, journalists, musicians etc. and doesn’t have employees. You have to fill out a 9-page form to apply where you state what work you have already done and that you’re over the minimum income from artistic work of 3,900€/​year. In the first three years of your work life, you don’t have to prove this minimum and this was also deferred during Covid-times.

  If you get accepted then the KSK will pay the cost of your health-, care- and pension insurance which includes for example doctors, clinics, medicine, psychotherapy, rehabilitation clinics and dentists. You will have to state your income yearly and pay a portion to the KSK.

  The KSK is financed by three sources:

  • Payments by artists (50%)

  • Payment by the government (20%)

  • Payment by clients that employ the artists (30%)

  My company has to list all artists invoices that we paid in a year (by graphic designers, photographers, make up artists etc.) and submit it to the KSK. We are then charged a percentage (currently 4.2%) of this. Every company and self-employed person in Germany has to do this.

  An analogue in EA could be a system where you:

  • have to prove that you’ve

    • either got EA funding for your work

    • you’re working at an EA org without insurance

    • you’re in the first 3 years of your EA career

  • pay a portion of your EA salary for the insurance

  • the insurance covers health insurance and other insurance-like services

  • Funders fill up the gap of the payments

  This model would still have the issue of vetting applicants, but one clear criterion would be that you can only get in for the first three years without showing that you have minimum funding through grant approvals or EA-aligned jobs. If you don’t earn any EA money after that you would get excluded.

• Patrick Gruban 8 Mar 2023 20:11 UTC

  26 points

  5 ∶ 0

  in reply to: Liv’s comment on: EA needs Life-Veter­ans and “Less Smart” people

  Having gotten into an EA leadership position in my late 40s last year these statements ring true. I’m very grateful to be able to work with young and smart people but I see the same risks and downsides I faced when running my first startup in my early twenties. I learned a lot when it failed and hope to be able to use this experience in building a more resilient EA organization.

• Patrick Gruban 12 Sep 2023 15:28 UTC

  25 points

  8 ∶ 0

  in reply to: James Herbert’s comment on: An­nounc­ing the Meta Co­or­di­na­tion Fo­rum 2023

  Seeing the other replies, it seems the specific experience of running a national EA organisation is not specifically represented, although, in our (EA Germany) case, Anne Schulze is part of the community. Bigger EA organisations like ours (>100 members, supporting 27 local/​uni groups, providing fiscal sponsorship/​employer of record services, having a community health contact, etc.) might bring an additional perspective.

  However, I see that having a representative for each sub-group would make for a big forum and that it’s okay to have people who represent multiple perspectives.

  What links here?

  • Rockwell's comment on An­nounc­ing the Meta Co­or­di­na­tion Fo­rum 2023 by Sophie Thomson (12 Sep 2023 17:44 UTC; 50 points)