This is super interesting! How do you do the experiments? Do you change one thing at a time and track?
jessica_mccurdyđ¸
Karma: 1,699
Rekindling the Fire: PrinÂciÂples-First EA Groups as a Path to ImÂpact [Talk TranÂscript]
Thanks! I actually also was using bearable for a while there and had a similar experience of âitâs hard to find out info because of confounders but this is generally useful for being mindful of my wellbeingâ. I donât use it any more but might look into it again :)
I remember thinking it was super cool when I found it
How I ImÂproved my Wellbeing
UpÂdates on CEAâs Pilot UniverÂsity Program
Thank you for writing and sharing this! Iâm excited about your work and also excited for other orgs to learn from it :)
This is really impressive output for such a small team!
Just wanted to drop in this study: Harvard Undergraduate Survey on Generative AI since it seems somewhat related/âinteresting :)
ComÂmuÂnity buildÂing in effecÂtive alÂtruÂism (panel disÂcusÂsion)
PoÂtenÂtial PitÂfalls in UniverÂsity EA ComÂmuÂnity BuildÂing
Hey
I am really sorry to hear about all of these negative experiences. I feel lucky to have gotten to work with you over the years and seen the positive impact you have had on others in the community and the exciting work you have moved into. I think the community will be losing a really lovely person. I admire both your courage in posting this and that you are prioritizing your well-being right now.
I was sad to hear that our team contributed to your negative experiences though I definitely understand. When I first was introduced to the idea of focusing on top universities, I also felt quite uncomfortable with the implications. I knew so many brilliant people not from those top universities and knew many systemic disadvantages prevent people from attending them.
That being said, I do still endorse this prioritization (though not an exclusive one!). In case itâs useful context, for you or others reading this post, Iâve written some reasons why I think this.
When piloting new forms of support or being limited in the number of universities a small team can give higher touch support to, hard decisions have to be made about which universities get that support.I believe most of the people who go on to have incredibly impactful careers will come from outside those top universities. That is part of why we set up UGAPâto help provide support and opportunities to promising individuals and groups around the world who might not have the same access and advantages.
However, top universities are the places with the highest concentrations of people who ultimately have a very large influence on the world. Partially that is because of the screening mechanisms of the university and but partially it is because of the built-in benefits and unfair advantages that students receive while they attend those universities. Given that this is the reality weâre working with, I believe we should do our best to leverage the existing system and opportunities at these universities to help get more people into high-impact careers. That often means focusing resources on those universities even though that can be demotivating to others.
Again, just wanted to note that I appreciate you sharing this post and am sorry to hear about your experience. I am wishing you the best.
CEA seeks co-founder for AI safety group supÂport spin-off
[ApÂpliÂcaÂtions Open] CEAâs OrÂgaÂnizer SupÂport ProÂgram (OSP) & UniverÂsity Group OrÂgaÂnizer Retreat
Hi Andreas,
This is a different and unrelated role (you can compare the role descriptions to see more differences)
We are currently doing work trials for candidates for the group support contractor role.
Hi Isaac, this is a good question! I can elaborate more in the Q&A tomorrow but here are some thoughts:
Ultimatley a lot depends on your personal fit and comparative advantage. I think people should do the things they excel at. While I do think you can have a more scalable impact on the groups team, the groups team would have very little to no impact without the organizers working on the ground!I can share some of the reasons that led me to prefer working at CEA over working on the ground:
I value having close management to help me think through my goals (both within my work and those related to more long-term professional development). I have had the benefit of working with some very experienced managers who have both taught me a lot and empowered me to grow myself through increasing levels of responsibility.
I really value learning from an established organization with efficient systems in place. It is pretty nice having most operational things handled and to have pre-existing support for things like budgeting, hiring, management, and performance reviews.
I really love the people at CEA. Donât get me wrong, I also loved the people at my uni group but /âeveryone/â at CEA is so caring, competent, and hardworking. It is pretty hard to match that with just students (and especially when so many of the students are just volunteers or participants with lots of competing interests)
I personally prefer working with organizers who are already excited about EA and connecting them with the broader community and opportunities. I find it a lot harder to introduce people to EA.
I like to work on building scalable systems, managing people who are full-time, and doing lots of coordination across many geographies and groups of people.
Due to my personal circumstances, I prefer to not be tied to one specific location like a single university. Working with CEA gives me a lot more flexibility (and can help me have a more normal work-life balance)
However, there are some good reasons why you might prefer to work on the ground:
I think the counterfactual impact story on the ground can be easier to see. Although we are able to make counterfactual connections for organizers, a lot of our impact happens through other people whose impact then also happens through others. Taking someone from not knowing anything about EA to transitioning into a high impact career is really fulfilling.
Working on a campus allows you to form deeper relationships with those you are working with and have more face-to-face time. Most of my work is remote and many of my coworkers work around the world let alone the organizers I work with. This works better for some people than others.
If you donât want to be a part of a bigger organization and the bureaucratic costs that come with that. I donât personally think these are that bad but we do have to be very careful about various legal and operational considerations. Sometimes things like budget approvals can feel like they are slowing you down.
Depending on your university, replaceability might be a larger consideration (ie: the difference in impact between you and the next best person on the groups team might be less than the difference in impact between the groups team and working with one uni if no one would replace you.)
Since you are working with so many people and making lots of commitments, it can be harder to rapidly shift directions.
Why you should (maybe) apÂply to the CEA UniverÂsity Groups Team!
[Question] LaunchÂing the new EA Groups ReÂsource CenÂtre
What Has the CEA Uni Groups Team Been Up To? â Our SumÂmer 2023 Review
ReÂquest for pubÂlic inÂput: The EA HandÂbook
Hey Camille,
Thanks for writing this and I am sorry you faced so many struggles and felt alone.
Arguments around students not having time feel surprising to me. Do you feel like your students are significantly busier than say, MIT students? I would defer to you since you have more context, but I have heard the âstudents donât have timeâ answer from a lot of universities that eventually ran quite successful clubs. So I think it would be interesting to know what ENS students are doing with their time? Do more students work outside schooling or is there a cultural norm around not participating in clubs? Or is the courseload significantly more intense (I think Cal Tech might be the only example I currently know where this might be true)? I think sharing more details on what makes ENS students so busy relative to other schools could help other schools when deciding whether they will face similar problems.
Also, mostly for others who are reading this and thinking about how it applies to their groups, there are some workarounds that schools have tried such as fellowships where people do the reading in the session. Many groups are happy to share their syllabi via the groups slack (though given your cultural concerns many of these may be too English and would have required editing). I think the main thing that makes fellowships the most successful (but far from ideal) innovation in groups is the consistent and recurring meeting nature of it. So would be curious to hear if you think the readings in the session version would work. I like the cozy sessions idea and have seen these be quite successful at other groups too :)
Iâm sorry about the communication problems you faced in UGAP and that it didnât feel like it would be useful. However, 80% confidence that a UGAP mentor wouldnât have been right for you seems super high! I think it is pretty plausible for the reasons you mentioned that the UGAP programming would be less useful for you but mentorship is very unique to the person and flexible. So my guess is it would have still been valuable even if you mostly didnât talk about organizing and instead talked about EA ideas and your own career. But maybe we could chat more about what made this prediction so high for you :)
Again, appreciate you sharing and admire your perseverance and innovation here :)
Thank you! And thank you so much for your podcastsâlike I mentioned in the post I found them really helpful and relatable and am grateful for you sharing so much!
Iâm on buproprion xl and generally they donât recommend taking it at night because it can cause insomnia but Iâm really lucky and have never really had problems with that. Instead, I just found waking up in the morning extremely difficultâI often woke up sad and just wanted to stay in bed and keep sleeping (even if I had slept a really long time). Due to the extended release, taking it at night means that peak effects are now happening in the mornings when I was most sad /â low motivation before. So that was honestly just really great for me.