I’m surprised. You just found out that one of the worst things you thought he said was wrong.
Are you not going to update and maybe think that maybe he’s not the villain you originally thought?
I know you’re usually quite good at updating based on new evidence. It’s hard to convey over text, but I genuinely recommend taking a step back from this and reflecting on your views.
I’ve seen in one other thread as well you realizing that what you’d heard about Hanania was wrong, so that’s twice in one day. Consider that maybe the other things were also not as bad as you originally thought.
I don’t think you have remotely conclusively proved that this tweet wasn’t racist.
Edit: I don’t think TheAthenians should have to conclusively prove a tweet isn’t racist. I think I more wished to say “I am pretty confident and you have done little to move that” since this discussion has started several other non-aligned people have reached out to say that they too didn’t read the tweet as racist. I am now less confident.
The claim is that the tweet said he called all black people animals.
It’s a separate but overlapping claim about whether the tweet was racist.
For the first claim, shouldn’t it update you massively that he said he was talking about specific other people, that totally make sense in the context?
What do you think is more likely:
Person who consistently criticizes crime apologists, criticizes crime apologists
Person says he dislikes crime apologists, but secretly hates all black people and is lying
Assuming people don’t mean what they say and that your interpretation of their internal state is more accurate than their explanation of it seems pretty suboptimal to me.
I think our community would be better off if they updated based on misunderstandings, rather than insisting that people have hidden bad intentions and are liars about their own lived experience.
It’s pretty interesting that Hanania just happens to frequently make these kinds of accidents, right?
I’m surprised. You just found out that one of the worst things you thought he said was wrong.
Are you not going to update and maybe think that maybe he’s not the villain you originally thought?
I know you’re usually quite good at updating based on new evidence. It’s hard to convey over text, but I genuinely recommend taking a step back from this and reflecting on your views.
I’ve seen in one other thread as well you realizing that what you’d heard about Hanania was wrong, so that’s twice in one day. Consider that maybe the other things were also not as bad as you originally thought.
I don’t think you have remotely conclusively proved that this tweet wasn’t racist.
Edit: I don’t think TheAthenians should have to conclusively prove a tweet isn’t racist. I think I more wished to say “I am pretty confident and you have done little to move that” since this discussion has started several other non-aligned people have reached out to say that they too didn’t read the tweet as racist. I am now less confident.
The claim is that the tweet said he called all black people animals.
It’s a separate but overlapping claim about whether the tweet was racist.
For the first claim, shouldn’t it update you massively that he said he was talking about specific other people, that totally make sense in the context?
What do you think is more likely:
Person who consistently criticizes crime apologists, criticizes crime apologists
Person says he dislikes crime apologists, but secretly hates all black people and is lying
Assuming people don’t mean what they say and that your interpretation of their internal state is more accurate than their explanation of it seems pretty suboptimal to me.
I think our community would be better off if they updated based on misunderstandings, rather than insisting that people have hidden bad intentions and are liars about their own lived experience.
We have already followed the rest of this line of argument here https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/34pz6ni3muwPnenLS/why-so-many-racists-at-manifest?commentId=gj53zXi5k4SEdh3Rh
Again, I’m willing to change my mind, but it would actually involve some behaviour change on his part, which so far I haven’t seen.
Neither were accidents? It was just people misinterpreting what he was saying or interpreting things uncharitably.
People interpret people uncharitably all the time on the internet, especially if you ever mention race.