Thanks for the response. You’ve summarised the post very well except that, more than limiting intellectual freedom, the convention definition leads to excessive focus on purity at the first-order at the expense of broad utilitarian considerations (think of all the vitriol that vegans throw at deserters which is so irrational).
As for your view that without the solidarity, the veganism would not be what it is today, I am not entirely convinced. To be clear, the community of interest in this discussion is the animal advocacy one and not vegans per se (notwithstanding the fact the two of them intersect almost completely). Here are some counter-arguments to consider:
Animal advocates are likely to be first-order vegans or very close to it anyway. If one voluntarily chooses to make lifestyle changes based on concern for animal suffering, then one is likely to go to significant lengths to avoid animal products. Not everyone may go the same distance but that’s okay (or so I think).
Peter Singer the philosopher who arguably has the greatest claim to influencing people on animal rights and liberation is not a strict vegan and in fact describes himself as being “flexible”. Yuval Harari is another person who is passionate about ending industrial agriculture of animals but describes himself as “vegan-ish”. If important thinkers who undoubtedly have a great influence on people refrain from using the word “vegan”, then why do you think that as a community animal advocates should not shed that label or loosen its definition?
Conversely, taking vegan purity to the extreme, we have people like Gary Francione who are so opposed to any welfarist progress (regardless of its consequential value) and who insist that we should avoid meat alternatives because that normalizes the idea of consuming animals. I hope we can agree that that position is counterproductive.
I may be extrapolating from personal experience but first-order veganism being as clearly defined (very arbitrary but very well-defined) gives adherents the sense that they are doing enough already and dilutes thinking along utilitarian lines (what if a vegan purist compares herself to someone who is 95% plant-based but convinces 3 people every month to reduce animal products by 50%).
While on the one hand, vegans could be admired for being very committed to the cause, and inspire others to do the same, they may seen too distant which could work against people making changes that they otherwise may have been open to. Again, this is speculative and in general I think it cuts both ways.
Thanks for the response. You’ve summarised the post very well except that, more than limiting intellectual freedom, the convention definition leads to excessive focus on purity at the first-order at the expense of broad utilitarian considerations (think of all the vitriol that vegans throw at deserters which is so irrational).
As for your view that without the solidarity, the veganism would not be what it is today, I am not entirely convinced. To be clear, the community of interest in this discussion is the animal advocacy one and not vegans per se (notwithstanding the fact the two of them intersect almost completely). Here are some counter-arguments to consider:
Animal advocates are likely to be first-order vegans or very close to it anyway. If one voluntarily chooses to make lifestyle changes based on concern for animal suffering, then one is likely to go to significant lengths to avoid animal products. Not everyone may go the same distance but that’s okay (or so I think).
Peter Singer the philosopher who arguably has the greatest claim to influencing people on animal rights and liberation is not a strict vegan and in fact describes himself as being “flexible”. Yuval Harari is another person who is passionate about ending industrial agriculture of animals but describes himself as “vegan-ish”. If important thinkers who undoubtedly have a great influence on people refrain from using the word “vegan”, then why do you think that as a community animal advocates should not shed that label or loosen its definition?
Conversely, taking vegan purity to the extreme, we have people like Gary Francione who are so opposed to any welfarist progress (regardless of its consequential value) and who insist that we should avoid meat alternatives because that normalizes the idea of consuming animals. I hope we can agree that that position is counterproductive.
I may be extrapolating from personal experience but first-order veganism being as clearly defined (very arbitrary but very well-defined) gives adherents the sense that they are doing enough already and dilutes thinking along utilitarian lines (what if a vegan purist compares herself to someone who is 95% plant-based but convinces 3 people every month to reduce animal products by 50%).
While on the one hand, vegans could be admired for being very committed to the cause, and inspire others to do the same, they may seen too distant which could work against people making changes that they otherwise may have been open to. Again, this is speculative and in general I think it cuts both ways.