In short, maybe the author is burnt out or has only ever worked with poor colleagues? Or hasn’t been funded in a while?
I downvoted this comment based on this paragraph. Arch speculations that a position taken is probably due to inadequacies and personal frustrations of the author are nearly always uncharitable, unwarranted and, in my experience, well-correlated with sloppy and defensive thinking.
No, the guy probably isn’t just mad because he couldn’t cut it in academia.
I agree with this comment and retracted my upvote for the same reason, though I thought the rest of Tom’s comment was quite reasonable (see Alexey Guzey for some examples of quiet scientific progress).
To do so, he has to throw aside mountains of scientific research. I would say his attack above is a necessary part of that effort.
So while I am concerned about inefficiencies in academic work and the waste of taxpayer dollars, I’m much more worried about the effects of corporate money on research.
So while I am concerned about inefficiencies in academic work and the waste of taxpayer dollars, I’m much more worried about the effects of corporate money on research.
Are there studies on whether corporate-funded research are of typically lower (or higher) quality than publicly-funded academic research? I can imagine it going either way, but I feel like I only have loose intuitions and anecdotes to go off of, and it’d be good to actually see data.
Good question. I did a quick google and came across Lisa Bero who seems to have done a huge amount of work on research integrity. From this popular article, it sounds like corporate funding is often problematic for the research process.
The article links to several systematic reviews her group has done, and the article ‘Industry sponsorship and research outcome’ does conclude that corporate funding leads to a bias in the published results:
Authors’ conclusions: Sponsorship of drug and device studies by the manufacturing company leads to more favorable efficacy results and conclusions than sponsorship by other sources. Our analyses suggest the existence of an industry bias that cannot be explained by standard ‘Risk of bias’ assessments.
I just read the abstract this so I’m not sure if they tried to identify if this was solely due to publication bias or if corporate-funded research also tended to have other issues (e.g. less rigorous experimental designs or other questionable research practices).
Without a Google Scholar search, I’d just point to how industry dealt with things like asbestos, lead, tobacco, and greenhouse gas emissions.
Science definitely needs scrutiny, debate, and evidence. That said, whenever someone’s loudly proclaiming that an entire field is corrupt and incorrect, it should raise suspicions.
What’s more likely: that thousands of (generally underpaid) researchers in hundreds of competing labs worldwide are all in cahoots, or that a few dissenting voices are funded by industry to argue that point of view?
I agree that for topics where there are transparent, obvious, and one-sided financial incentives on one side, and the other side has approximate consensus among experts, I agree that the side with bad incentives (and are the numerical minority) are more suspicious.
However, when I think of industry funding for research, I mostly don’t think of
a few dissenting voices are funded by industry to argue that point of view
I think more of stuff in the vein of people actually trying to figure things out (eg, BigTech funds a lot of applied and even theoretical CS research, especially in AI and distributed systems).
I’d just point to how industry dealt with things like asbestos, lead, tobacco, and greenhouse gas emissions
I don’t know much about the other examples. I agree with greenhouse gases. My impression is that there was a lot of misinformation/bad science about vaping, and this was at least as much (and likely more) the fault of academic researchers as it was the fault of entrenched corporate interests.
I wouldn’t expect a marked difference in the quality of non-controversial research whether funded by a national granting agency or private industry. That said, I’m not an expert on the topic, either.
As for “controversial” science in the sense of “any science that business/industry doesn’t like,” the pattern is quite similar whether we’re talking about lead, asbestos, climate change, et cetera:
Find a couple of researchers who will play ball to say your product is safe despite all the evidence to the contrary. Point to this repeatedly any time the topic comes up. Ignore the mountain of evidence that says you’re wrong at all costs, and undermine it any way you can. Buy as many politicians as you can to try and prevent regulation.
As for vaping, I’d need to see some examples of bad academic research. I’m not sure you can blame the scientists for the consequences of poorly-regulated businesses. They can only test the products that they’re given and tell you whether they’re safe. They can’t tell you if a manufacturer is going to change the oil they use or decide to include heavy metals.
Yeah, I don’t want to imply that I strongly support the original claims. I think there are lots of very serious problems with incentives and epistemics in science, but nevertheless that both the incentives and the epistemics of scientists are unusually good in important ways.
(As an anecdote that probably shouldn’t be taken as strong evidence, but that I found striking, I once tried out the 2-4-6 test on my lab, and IIRC something like two-thirds of members got the right answer first-time, and both group leaders present did so fairly quickly.)
I’m also very worried about the effects of corporate funding on research, at least in some domains.
Yeah, the more I looked into the guy, the more his critique fit into context. His work finds a home on some websites of questionable repute. haha
And as you point out, the people you meet in academia generally don’t tend to be as he’s characterized them.
I would be willing to bet that he has a financial motive to argue against the prevailing scientific consensus, just as we see in other instances where facts turn out to be inconvenient for corporate interests.
I originally posted this article as, although it presents a very strong opinion on the matter and admittedly uses shock tactics by taking many values out of context (as pointed out by Romeo and Will), I thought that the sentiment was going in both same the direction that I personally felt science was moving and also with several other sources I’d read. I hadn’t looked into any of authors other work, and although his publication record seems reasonable, he has pushed some fairly fringe views on nutrition and knowing this does reduce the weight I give to views in this article (thanks for digging into it Tom).
For a more balanced critic of recent scientific practice I’d recommend the book Real Science by John Ziman (I have a pdf, PM if you’d like a copy). It’s a long but fairly interesting read on the sociology of science from a naturalistic perspective, and claims that University research has moved from an ‘academic’ to ‘post-academic’ phase, characterised as the transition from the rigorous pursuit of knowledge to a focus on applications, which represents a convergence between academic and industrial research traditions. Although this may lead to more applications diffusing out of academia in the short-term, the ‘post-academic’ system is claimed to loose some important features of traditional research, like disinterestedness, organised skepticism, and universality, and tends to trade quality for quantity. The influence of societal interests (including corporate goals) would be expected to have much influence on the work done by ‘post-academic’ researchers.
Agreed with both Will and Tom that there are certainly are still lot of people doing good academic research, and how strongly you weight the balance will depend on which scientists you interact with. Personally, I ended up leaving Academia without pursuing a faculty position (in-part) because I felt I the push to use excessive spin and hype in order to publish my work and attract funding was making it quite substanceless. Of course, this may have been specific to the field I was working in (invertebrate sensory neuroscience) and I’m glad to hear that you both have more positive outlooks.
I downvoted this comment based on this paragraph. Arch speculations that a position taken is probably due to inadequacies and personal frustrations of the author are nearly always uncharitable, unwarranted and, in my experience, well-correlated with sloppy and defensive thinking.
No, the guy probably isn’t just mad because he couldn’t cut it in academia.
I agree with this comment and retracted my upvote for the same reason, though I thought the rest of Tom’s comment was quite reasonable (see Alexey Guzey for some examples of quiet scientific progress).
Thanks for your feedback.
I was trying to figure out why the author would be so, so critical of scientific research.
I would say he was downright uncharitable, in fact.
It turns out that he’s also argued quite strongly that high levels of refined sugar in people’s diets are no problem: e.g., https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/08/180827110730.htm
To do so, he has to throw aside mountains of scientific research. I would say his attack above is a necessary part of that effort.
So while I am concerned about inefficiencies in academic work and the waste of taxpayer dollars, I’m much more worried about the effects of corporate money on research.
Are there studies on whether corporate-funded research are of typically lower (or higher) quality than publicly-funded academic research? I can imagine it going either way, but I feel like I only have loose intuitions and anecdotes to go off of, and it’d be good to actually see data.
Good question. I did a quick google and came across Lisa Bero who seems to have done a huge amount of work on research integrity. From this popular article, it sounds like corporate funding is often problematic for the research process.
The article links to several systematic reviews her group has done, and the article ‘Industry sponsorship and research outcome’ does conclude that corporate funding leads to a bias in the published results:
I just read the abstract this so I’m not sure if they tried to identify if this was solely due to publication bias or if corporate-funded research also tended to have other issues (e.g. less rigorous experimental designs or other questionable research practices).
Without a Google Scholar search, I’d just point to how industry dealt with things like asbestos, lead, tobacco, and greenhouse gas emissions.
Science definitely needs scrutiny, debate, and evidence. That said, whenever someone’s loudly proclaiming that an entire field is corrupt and incorrect, it should raise suspicions.
What’s more likely: that thousands of (generally underpaid) researchers in hundreds of competing labs worldwide are all in cahoots, or that a few dissenting voices are funded by industry to argue that point of view?
I agree that for topics where there are transparent, obvious, and one-sided financial incentives on one side, and the other side has approximate consensus among experts, I agree that the side with bad incentives (and are the numerical minority) are more suspicious.
However, when I think of industry funding for research, I mostly don’t think of
I think more of stuff in the vein of people actually trying to figure things out (eg, BigTech funds a lot of applied and even theoretical CS research, especially in AI and distributed systems).
I don’t know much about the other examples. I agree with greenhouse gases. My impression is that there was a lot of misinformation/bad science about vaping, and this was at least as much (and likely more) the fault of academic researchers as it was the fault of entrenched corporate interests.
I wouldn’t expect a marked difference in the quality of non-controversial research whether funded by a national granting agency or private industry. That said, I’m not an expert on the topic, either.
As for “controversial” science in the sense of “any science that business/industry doesn’t like,” the pattern is quite similar whether we’re talking about lead, asbestos, climate change, et cetera:
Find a couple of researchers who will play ball to say your product is safe despite all the evidence to the contrary. Point to this repeatedly any time the topic comes up. Ignore the mountain of evidence that says you’re wrong at all costs, and undermine it any way you can. Buy as many politicians as you can to try and prevent regulation.
As for vaping, I’d need to see some examples of bad academic research. I’m not sure you can blame the scientists for the consequences of poorly-regulated businesses. They can only test the products that they’re given and tell you whether they’re safe. They can’t tell you if a manufacturer is going to change the oil they use or decide to include heavy metals.
That’s up to the regulators to prevent.
Yeah, I don’t want to imply that I strongly support the original claims. I think there are lots of very serious problems with incentives and epistemics in science, but nevertheless that both the incentives and the epistemics of scientists are unusually good in important ways.
(As an anecdote that probably shouldn’t be taken as strong evidence, but that I found striking, I once tried out the 2-4-6 test on my lab, and IIRC something like two-thirds of members got the right answer first-time, and both group leaders present did so fairly quickly.)
I’m also very worried about the effects of corporate funding on research, at least in some domains.
Yeah, the more I looked into the guy, the more his critique fit into context. His work finds a home on some websites of questionable repute. haha
And as you point out, the people you meet in academia generally don’t tend to be as he’s characterized them.
I would be willing to bet that he has a financial motive to argue against the prevailing scientific consensus, just as we see in other instances where facts turn out to be inconvenient for corporate interests.
Thanks for the discussion on this Tom and Will.
I originally posted this article as, although it presents a very strong opinion on the matter and admittedly uses shock tactics by taking many values out of context (as pointed out by Romeo and Will), I thought that the sentiment was going in both same the direction that I personally felt science was moving and also with several other sources I’d read. I hadn’t looked into any of authors other work, and although his publication record seems reasonable, he has pushed some fairly fringe views on nutrition and knowing this does reduce the weight I give to views in this article (thanks for digging into it Tom).
For a more balanced critic of recent scientific practice I’d recommend the book Real Science by John Ziman (I have a pdf, PM if you’d like a copy). It’s a long but fairly interesting read on the sociology of science from a naturalistic perspective, and claims that University research has moved from an ‘academic’ to ‘post-academic’ phase, characterised as the transition from the rigorous pursuit of knowledge to a focus on applications, which represents a convergence between academic and industrial research traditions. Although this may lead to more applications diffusing out of academia in the short-term, the ‘post-academic’ system is claimed to loose some important features of traditional research, like disinterestedness, organised skepticism, and universality, and tends to trade quality for quantity. The influence of societal interests (including corporate goals) would be expected to have much influence on the work done by ‘post-academic’ researchers.
Agreed with both Will and Tom that there are certainly are still lot of people doing good academic research, and how strongly you weight the balance will depend on which scientists you interact with. Personally, I ended up leaving Academia without pursuing a faculty position (in-part) because I felt I the push to use excessive spin and hype in order to publish my work and attract funding was making it quite substanceless. Of course, this may have been specific to the field I was working in (invertebrate sensory neuroscience) and I’m glad to hear that you both have more positive outlooks.