Thanks for sharing your experience here. I’m glad you see a path forward that involves continuing to work on issues you care about despite distancing yourself from the community.
In general, I think people should be more willing to accept that you can accept EA ideas or pursue EA-inspired careers without necessarily accepting the EA community. I sometimes hear people struggling with the fact that they like a lot of the values/beliefs in EA (e.g., desire to use evidence and reason to find cost-effective and time-effective ways of improving the world) while having a lot of concerns about the modern EA movement/community.
The main thing I tell these folks is that you can live by certain EA principles while distancing yourself from the community. I’ve known several people who have distanced themselves from the community (for various reasons, not just the ones listed here) but remained in AI safety or other topics they care about.
Personally, I feel like I’ve benefitted quite a bit from being less centrally involved in the EA space (and correspondingly being more involved in other professional/social spaces). I think this comment by Habryka describes a lot of the psychological/intellectual effects that I experienced.
Relatedly, as I specialized more in AI safety, I found it useful to ask questions like “what spaces should I go to where I can meet people who could help with my AI safety goals”. This sometimes overlapped with “go to EA event” but often overlapped with “go meet people outside the EA community who are doing relevant work or have relevant experience”, and I think this has been a very valuable part of my professional growth over the last 1-2 years.
I 100% agree with you on your general point, Akash, but I think something slightly different is going on here, and I think it’s important to get it right.
To me, it sounds like you’re saying, ‘Bob is developing a more healthy relationship with EA’. However, I think what’s actually happening is more like, ‘Bob used to think EA was a cool thing, and it helped him do cool things, but then people associated with it kept doing things Bob found repugnant, and so now Bob does not want anything to do with it’.
Bob, forgive me for speaking on your behalf, and please correct me if I have misinterpreted things.
A bit strong, but about right. The strategy the rationalists describe seems to stem from a desire to ensure their own intellectual development, which is, after all, the rationalist project. By disregarding social norms you can start conversing with lots of people about lots of stuff you otherwise wouldn’t have been able to. Tempting, however, my own (intellectual) freedom is not my primary concern; my primary concern is the overall happiness (or feelings, if you will) of others, and certain social norms are there to protect that.
To me, it sounds like you’re saying, ‘Bob is developing a more healthy relationship with EA’.
Oh just a quick clarification– I wasn’t trying to say anything about Bob or Bob’s relationship with EA here.
I just wanted to chime in with my own experience (which is not the same as Bob’s but shares one similarity in that they’re both in the “rethinking one’s relationship with the EA community/movement” umbrella).
More generally, I suspect many forum readers are grappling with this question of “what do I want my relationship with the EA community/movement to be”. Given this, it might be useful for more people to share how they’ve processed these questions (whether they’re related to the recent Manifold events or related to other things that have caused people to question their affiliation with EA).
Thanks for sharing your experience here. I’m glad you see a path forward that involves continuing to work on issues you care about despite distancing yourself from the community.
In general, I think people should be more willing to accept that you can accept EA ideas or pursue EA-inspired careers without necessarily accepting the EA community. I sometimes hear people struggling with the fact that they like a lot of the values/beliefs in EA (e.g., desire to use evidence and reason to find cost-effective and time-effective ways of improving the world) while having a lot of concerns about the modern EA movement/community.
The main thing I tell these folks is that you can live by certain EA principles while distancing yourself from the community. I’ve known several people who have distanced themselves from the community (for various reasons, not just the ones listed here) but remained in AI safety or other topics they care about.
Personally, I feel like I’ve benefitted quite a bit from being less centrally involved in the EA space (and correspondingly being more involved in other professional/social spaces). I think this comment by Habryka describes a lot of the psychological/intellectual effects that I experienced.
Relatedly, as I specialized more in AI safety, I found it useful to ask questions like “what spaces should I go to where I can meet people who could help with my AI safety goals”. This sometimes overlapped with “go to EA event” but often overlapped with “go meet people outside the EA community who are doing relevant work or have relevant experience”, and I think this has been a very valuable part of my professional growth over the last 1-2 years.
I 100% agree with you on your general point, Akash, but I think something slightly different is going on here, and I think it’s important to get it right.
To me, it sounds like you’re saying, ‘Bob is developing a more healthy relationship with EA’. However, I think what’s actually happening is more like, ‘Bob used to think EA was a cool thing, and it helped him do cool things, but then people associated with it kept doing things Bob found repugnant, and so now Bob does not want anything to do with it’.
Bob, forgive me for speaking on your behalf, and please correct me if I have misinterpreted things.
A bit strong, but about right. The strategy the rationalists describe seems to stem from a desire to ensure their own intellectual development, which is, after all, the rationalist project. By disregarding social norms you can start conversing with lots of people about lots of stuff you otherwise wouldn’t have been able to. Tempting, however, my own (intellectual) freedom is not my primary concern; my primary concern is the overall happiness (or feelings, if you will) of others, and certain social norms are there to protect that.
Oh just a quick clarification– I wasn’t trying to say anything about Bob or Bob’s relationship with EA here.
I just wanted to chime in with my own experience (which is not the same as Bob’s but shares one similarity in that they’re both in the “rethinking one’s relationship with the EA community/movement” umbrella).
More generally, I suspect many forum readers are grappling with this question of “what do I want my relationship with the EA community/movement to be”. Given this, it might be useful for more people to share how they’ve processed these questions (whether they’re related to the recent Manifold events or related to other things that have caused people to question their affiliation with EA).