Are you arguing that EA is “above-the-curve” on DEI stuff? Or you agree with me that it is not, but you just think my evidence for the point is lacking?
Are you comparing my public school, after-school program, to a donkey sanctuary? And/or do you believe that aiming to make EA more accessible to the general public, and more diverse, is akin to supporting donkey sanctuaries?
(on the other hand you have a point that my anecdote is not the best… as plenty of people in EA do like my ideas for broadening out EA to the general public… so it’s not like many people hate on me for this, although actually you seem to think this is a waste of time yourself?)
The 80k hours article you are pulling is simply detailing that one can make a difference in general and all the reasons why one should pursue this, generally speaking.- My point was different… my point was that their actual concrete advice from there applies mostly to a specific elite kind of people who want to go to grad school and/or do certain types of studies/activities which about 88+% of people are not going to be into for one reason or another, starting with the fact that only about 12% of people go to grad school in the first place. Yes money is one main factor why many people won’t even think to go grad school but sure that reason doesn’t apply to everyone like you mention.
We can discuss the pros and cons of EA not being diverse. I think there are pros to its focus on the things it does, and I don’t mean to sound like I’m bashing it 100%. But I think it’s pretty clear that EA is not diverse as is, and doesn’t resonate with people outside the general Ivy League world too too much.
I also share these frustrations with career advice from 80,000 Hours and the EA Forum. There was time about 2 years back where my forum activity was a lot of snarky complaints (of questionable insight) about career advice and diversity.
Like you mentioned, the career advice usually leaves a lot to be desired in the concrete details of navigating a lack of mentors, lack of credentials, lack of financial runway, family obligations, etc. I’ve sometimes wondered about writing an article to fill in the gap, but it’s not exactly a “one article” sized hole. Maybe that’s a yearlong project you or I or someone else can work on someday.
As for my comment on “above-the-curve”, I think we’re in agreement but I could have worded this better. I don’t think the community is diverse but the initiatives are much higher quality than I see elsewhere. Usually, these initiatives range from bad to useless. Whereas this list of EA diversity initiatives feels mostly harmless or slightly positive nudges. A few feel like they’ll pay dividends in a few years.
All makes sense Geoffery and glad it’s not just me who thinks about these things, especially on the 80k advice.
I agree that this list that Julia presents is very impressive and way better than what a lot might do, in some contexts. Your point is well taken and your initial comment was good too, I maybe could have read the meaning a little better so maybe it was me that boxed it in.
Thanks so much, these threads I am posting on here, are I think the first time I am having productive back and forths on the forum so that’s kinda cool :)
Are you arguing that EA is “above-the-curve” on DEI stuff? Or you agree with me that it is not, but you just think my evidence for the point is lacking?
Are you comparing my public school, after-school program, to a donkey sanctuary? And/or do you believe that aiming to make EA more accessible to the general public, and more diverse, is akin to supporting donkey sanctuaries?
(on the other hand you have a point that my anecdote is not the best… as plenty of people in EA do like my ideas for broadening out EA to the general public… so it’s not like many people hate on me for this, although actually you seem to think this is a waste of time yourself?)
The 80k hours article you are pulling is simply detailing that one can make a difference in general and all the reasons why one should pursue this, generally speaking.- My point was different… my point was that their actual concrete advice from there applies mostly to a specific elite kind of people who want to go to grad school and/or do certain types of studies/activities which about 88+% of people are not going to be into for one reason or another, starting with the fact that only about 12% of people go to grad school in the first place. Yes money is one main factor why many people won’t even think to go grad school but sure that reason doesn’t apply to everyone like you mention.
We can discuss the pros and cons of EA not being diverse. I think there are pros to its focus on the things it does, and I don’t mean to sound like I’m bashing it 100%. But I think it’s pretty clear that EA is not diverse as is, and doesn’t resonate with people outside the general Ivy League world too too much.
I also share these frustrations with career advice from 80,000 Hours and the EA Forum. There was time about 2 years back where my forum activity was a lot of snarky complaints (of questionable insight) about career advice and diversity.
Like you mentioned, the career advice usually leaves a lot to be desired in the concrete details of navigating a lack of mentors, lack of credentials, lack of financial runway, family obligations, etc. I’ve sometimes wondered about writing an article to fill in the gap, but it’s not exactly a “one article” sized hole. Maybe that’s a yearlong project you or I or someone else can work on someday.
As for my comment on “above-the-curve”, I think we’re in agreement but I could have worded this better. I don’t think the community is diverse but the initiatives are much higher quality than I see elsewhere. Usually, these initiatives range from bad to useless. Whereas this list of EA diversity initiatives feels mostly harmless or slightly positive nudges. A few feel like they’ll pay dividends in a few years.
All makes sense Geoffery and glad it’s not just me who thinks about these things, especially on the 80k advice.
I agree that this list that Julia presents is very impressive and way better than what a lot might do, in some contexts. Your point is well taken and your initial comment was good too, I maybe could have read the meaning a little better so maybe it was me that boxed it in.
Thanks so much, these threads I am posting on here, are I think the first time I am having productive back and forths on the forum so that’s kinda cool :)