I don’t disagree with any of the above (which is why I emphasized that I don’t think the scaling argument is sufficient to justify a growth explosion). I’m confused why you think the rate of growth of robots is at all relevant, when (general-purpose) robotics seem mostly like a research technology right now. It feels kind of like looking at the current rate of growth of fusion plants as a prediction of the rate of growth of fusion plants after the point where fusion is cheaper than other sources of energy.
(If you were talking about the rate of growth of machines in general I’d find that more relevant.)
By “I am confused by your argument against scaling”, I thought you meant the argument I made here, since that was the main argument I made regarding scaling; the example with robots wasn’t really central.
I’m also a bit confused, because I read your arguments above as being arguments in favor of explosive economic growth rates from hardware scaling and increasing software efficiency. So I’m not sure whether you believe that the factors mentioned in your comment above are sufficient for causing explosive economic growth. Moreover, I don’t yet understand why you believe that hardware scaling would come to grow at much higher rates than it has in the past.
I don’t yet understand why you believe that hardware scaling would come to grow at much higher rates than it has in the past.
If we assume innovations decline, then it is primarily because future AI and robots will be able to automate far more tasks than current AI and robots (and we will get them quickly, not slowly).
Imagine that currently technology A that automates area X gains capabilities at a rate of 5% per year, which ends up leading to a growth rate of 10% per year.
Imagine technology B that also aims to automate area X gains capabilities at a rate of 20% per year, but is currently behind technology A.
Generally, at the point when B exceeds A, I’d expect growth rates of X-automating technologies to grow from 10% to >20% (though not necessarily immediately, it can take time to build the capacity for that growth).
For AI, the area X is “cognitive labor”, technology A is “the current suite of productivity tools”, and technology B is “AI”.
For robots, the area X is “physical labor”, technology A is “classical robotics”, and technology B is “robotics based on foundation models”.
That was just assuming hardware scaling, and it justifies a growth in some particular growth rates, but not a growth explosion. If you add in the software efficiency, then I think you are just straightforwardly generating lots of innovations (what else is leading to the improved software efficiency?) and that’s how you get the growth explosion, at least until you run out of software efficiency improvements to make.
To be clear, I don’t mean to claim that we should give special importance to current growth rates in robotics in particular. I just picked that as an example. But I do think it’s a relevant example, primarily due to the gradual nature of the abilities that robots are surpassing, and the consequent gradual nature of their employment.
Unlike fusion, which is singular in its relevant output (energy), robots produce a diversity of things, and robots cover a wide range of growth-relevant skills that are gradually getting surpassed already. It is this gradual nature of their growth-related abilities that makes them relevant, imo — because they are already doing a lot of work and already contributing a fair deal to the growth we’re currently seeing. (To clarify, I mostly have in mind industrial robots, such as these, the future equivalents of which I also expect to be important to growth; I’d agree that it wouldn’t be so relevant if we were only talking about some prototypes of robots that don’t yet contribute meaningfully to the economy.)
I don’t disagree with any of the above (which is why I emphasized that I don’t think the scaling argument is sufficient to justify a growth explosion). I’m confused why you think the rate of growth of robots is at all relevant, when (general-purpose) robotics seem mostly like a research technology right now. It feels kind of like looking at the current rate of growth of fusion plants as a prediction of the rate of growth of fusion plants after the point where fusion is cheaper than other sources of energy.
(If you were talking about the rate of growth of machines in general I’d find that more relevant.)
By “I am confused by your argument against scaling”, I thought you meant the argument I made here, since that was the main argument I made regarding scaling; the example with robots wasn’t really central.
I’m also a bit confused, because I read your arguments above as being arguments in favor of explosive economic growth rates from hardware scaling and increasing software efficiency. So I’m not sure whether you believe that the factors mentioned in your comment above are sufficient for causing explosive economic growth. Moreover, I don’t yet understand why you believe that hardware scaling would come to grow at much higher rates than it has in the past.
If we assume innovations decline, then it is primarily because future AI and robots will be able to automate far more tasks than current AI and robots (and we will get them quickly, not slowly).
Imagine that currently technology A that automates area X gains capabilities at a rate of 5% per year, which ends up leading to a growth rate of 10% per year.
Imagine technology B that also aims to automate area X gains capabilities at a rate of 20% per year, but is currently behind technology A.
Generally, at the point when B exceeds A, I’d expect growth rates of X-automating technologies to grow from 10% to >20% (though not necessarily immediately, it can take time to build the capacity for that growth).
For AI, the area X is “cognitive labor”, technology A is “the current suite of productivity tools”, and technology B is “AI”.
For robots, the area X is “physical labor”, technology A is “classical robotics”, and technology B is “robotics based on foundation models”.
That was just assuming hardware scaling, and it justifies a growth in some particular growth rates, but not a growth explosion. If you add in the software efficiency, then I think you are just straightforwardly generating lots of innovations (what else is leading to the improved software efficiency?) and that’s how you get the growth explosion, at least until you run out of software efficiency improvements to make.
To be clear, I don’t mean to claim that we should give special importance to current growth rates in robotics in particular. I just picked that as an example. But I do think it’s a relevant example, primarily due to the gradual nature of the abilities that robots are surpassing, and the consequent gradual nature of their employment.
Unlike fusion, which is singular in its relevant output (energy), robots produce a diversity of things, and robots cover a wide range of growth-relevant skills that are gradually getting surpassed already. It is this gradual nature of their growth-related abilities that makes them relevant, imo — because they are already doing a lot of work and already contributing a fair deal to the growth we’re currently seeing. (To clarify, I mostly have in mind industrial robots, such as these, the future equivalents of which I also expect to be important to growth; I’d agree that it wouldn’t be so relevant if we were only talking about some prototypes of robots that don’t yet contribute meaningfully to the economy.)