Thanks Rob, these are very useful points. (Cross-posting my response from Facebook): With regard to your point about there being multiple pledges, we have been considering various options, including GWWC having multiple pledges, EAO running a pledge through the effective-altruism.com, having a pledge as part of the forum, and looking to the donation registry to fulfil this function. None of these seem nearly as promising to us. GWWC has built up quite a base of infrastructure, credibility and branding, which it would be time-consuming and difficult to replicate. (EAO is not interested in doing so, and the forum and registry don’t seem terribly suited to doing so). I kind of agree with Jen that pledging is a little weird, so it would likely seem strange to have a series of different orgs with different pledges. This still leaves the option of GWWC having two—we already have the infrastructure and are seen as the ‘pledging organisation’. However, we’re very hesitant to have two separate pledges. When we’ve tried this in the past it hasn’t worked at all well.
GWWC has built up quite a base of infrastructure, credibility and branding, which it would be time-consuming and difficult to replicate.
GWWC has built up branding as an anti-poverty organisation. This is not an advantage when moving to more general causes, it is a disadvantage. Not only do you need to create brand equity all over again, you devalue your existing brand.
Also, isn’t most of the infrastructure just computer code? Surely GWWC would be willing to allow a more general EA organisation to copy that?
I’m not convinced this would be a disadvantage, since what we would branding as, as we do now, is an organisation which strongly encourages people to donate 10% of their income to the most effective organisations, and which highlights how amazingly effective certain global poverty eradication charities are.
Of course, we would be very happy to share the computer code. We’ve had a lot of discussion, in particular, with EAO about how it would work if they did this. But in practice it does not seem to be just a case of sharing computer code. Aside from the technical work involved in implementing the system separately again, there is the fact that building up a pledge which is appealing to take is not just a case of having the right computer code. Having a dedicated community person who reaches out to people individually and helps them along the path to joining seems to have made a big difference. It is hard to know how much difference having a credible community of people who have already taken the pledge and have stuck with it, having a feeling of a concrete community you’re joining, and an identity (of credible research into the most effective ways to help others) makes a difference. But qualitatively asking members why they have joined, what they like about being a member and why they might advise others to join these factors come up a bunch.
I think your description omits a key factor. GWWC’s brand is not just
an organisation which strongly encourages people to donate 10% of their income to the most effective organisations
but
an organisation which strongly encourages people to donate 10% of their income to the most effective anti-poverty organisations
Global poverty is all over the website, it’s the core of GWWC’s presentations, it’s explicitly mentioned in the pledge. I think any neutral outsider, having spent 10 minutes on the website, would say that GWWC was an anti-poverty (and disease, etc.) organization—and be very surprised to hear that it was also anti-robot, and anti-bacon!
Nor do the other factors you mention sound very convincing. The other EA organizations could hire someone to do outreach—they could even share the same person. And the ‘existing community’ argument is a misnomer. Firstly, there already is an existing community—I’m sure we could easily whip up a bunch of EAs to sign the new pledge. But you cannot say that the existing GWWC community could play such a role, as it is not a group of people who have taken the proposed pledge—it is a community of people who took the old pledge, which is quite different, many of whom seem quite unhappy about the change!
Thanks Rob, these are very useful points. (Cross-posting my response from Facebook): With regard to your point about there being multiple pledges, we have been considering various options, including GWWC having multiple pledges, EAO running a pledge through the effective-altruism.com, having a pledge as part of the forum, and looking to the donation registry to fulfil this function. None of these seem nearly as promising to us. GWWC has built up quite a base of infrastructure, credibility and branding, which it would be time-consuming and difficult to replicate. (EAO is not interested in doing so, and the forum and registry don’t seem terribly suited to doing so). I kind of agree with Jen that pledging is a little weird, so it would likely seem strange to have a series of different orgs with different pledges. This still leaves the option of GWWC having two—we already have the infrastructure and are seen as the ‘pledging organisation’. However, we’re very hesitant to have two separate pledges. When we’ve tried this in the past it hasn’t worked at all well.
GWWC has built up branding as an anti-poverty organisation. This is not an advantage when moving to more general causes, it is a disadvantage. Not only do you need to create brand equity all over again, you devalue your existing brand.
Also, isn’t most of the infrastructure just computer code? Surely GWWC would be willing to allow a more general EA organisation to copy that?
I’m not convinced this would be a disadvantage, since what we would branding as, as we do now, is an organisation which strongly encourages people to donate 10% of their income to the most effective organisations, and which highlights how amazingly effective certain global poverty eradication charities are.
Of course, we would be very happy to share the computer code. We’ve had a lot of discussion, in particular, with EAO about how it would work if they did this. But in practice it does not seem to be just a case of sharing computer code. Aside from the technical work involved in implementing the system separately again, there is the fact that building up a pledge which is appealing to take is not just a case of having the right computer code. Having a dedicated community person who reaches out to people individually and helps them along the path to joining seems to have made a big difference. It is hard to know how much difference having a credible community of people who have already taken the pledge and have stuck with it, having a feeling of a concrete community you’re joining, and an identity (of credible research into the most effective ways to help others) makes a difference. But qualitatively asking members why they have joined, what they like about being a member and why they might advise others to join these factors come up a bunch.
I think your description omits a key factor. GWWC’s brand is not just
but
Global poverty is all over the website, it’s the core of GWWC’s presentations, it’s explicitly mentioned in the pledge. I think any neutral outsider, having spent 10 minutes on the website, would say that GWWC was an anti-poverty (and disease, etc.) organization—and be very surprised to hear that it was also anti-robot, and anti-bacon!
Nor do the other factors you mention sound very convincing. The other EA organizations could hire someone to do outreach—they could even share the same person. And the ‘existing community’ argument is a misnomer. Firstly, there already is an existing community—I’m sure we could easily whip up a bunch of EAs to sign the new pledge. But you cannot say that the existing GWWC community could play such a role, as it is not a group of people who have taken the proposed pledge—it is a community of people who took the old pledge, which is quite different, many of whom seem quite unhappy about the change!