(context: worked at FHI for 2 years, no longer affiliated with it but still in touch with some people who are)
I’d probably frame/emphasize things a bit differently myself but agree with the general thrust of this, and think it’d be both overdue and in everyone’s interest.
The obvious lack of vetting of the apology was pretty disqualifying w.r.t. judgment for someone in such a prominent institutional and community position, even before getting to the content (on which I’ve commented elsewhere).
I’d add, re: pre-existing issues, that FHI as an institution has failed at doing super basic things like at least semi-regularly updating key components of their website*; the org’s shortcomings re: diversity have been obvious from the beginning and the apology was the last nail in the coffin re: chances for improving on that front as long as he’s in charge; and I don’t think I know anyone who thinks he adds net positive value as a manager** (vs. as a researcher, where I agree he has made important contributions, but that could continue without him wasting a critical leadership position, and as a founder, where his work is done).
*e.g. the news banner thing displays 6 year old news; no publications at all were added to the publication page in all of last year, despite there definitely being several publications; etc.
**Edit: Sean’s comment above suggests he maybe thinks Nick added value as a manager during a period that didn’t overlap with mine, and I know Sean, so maybe I spoke too strongly here :) unclear if he meant as manager, or founder, or research visionary, or what, though. In any case, I think it is fair to say, from what I know, that many people who have been at FHI don’t think he’s a super active or effective manager.
To be clear, I ’d say the same thing to Nick if asked, and mean what I said re: “in everyone’s interest”—I assume he wants FHI to succeed. I suspect/hope Nick would wants friends/colleagues “to disagree with [him] both publicly and privately; … who will admonish [him], gently but firmly, with whatever grain of truth there is in any accusations against me.” (from this article https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/21/opinion/cancel-culture-friendship.html - while I don’t like the term cancel culture and, like OP here, don’t think it’s an apt description of this situation, some of the points are relevant here).
Also, I felt very conflicted about posting this, both because I’ve benefited in the past from both Nick’s work and him hiring me, and because posting here stress me a lot (I expect lots of downvotes in absolute terms, though unsure how things will net out). This all stresses me out a lot. But I went ahead because I want FHI to be able to move on and thrive.
Edit: note I tweaked this comment a fair bit after reflecting on it some more, especially the last part, and I also wanted to signal-boost one of the comments in the thread from Jonas referenced above, here: https://twitter.com/JonasSandbrink/status/1631677091996393472?s=20 The point about mentorship is a big part of what I was gesturing at re: management effectiveness.
So I don’t have any extra knowledge to add to FHI, but I think this quote hits on something key:
and I don’t think I know anyone who thinks he adds net positive value as a manager** (vs. as a researcher, where I agree he has made important contributions, but that could continue without him wasting a critical leadership position, and as a founder, where his work is done).
There are a few cases like this where excellent EA researchers end up as org leaders, but this is not the thing that they’re best at. From other people’s reports in this thread Bostrom seems to be a textbook example here. I’d also say MacAskill and Backstead come to my mind here given that they are board members of EVF, but their background/experience/expertise is mostly in academic philosophy as far as my outside view can tell.[1]
I can see the argument that you’d want someone with this background who has deep knowledge of the movement’s philosophical tradition and arguments to be on a board, but I’d be surprised if the very best people in EA at research/idea generation would also be the very best we have at organisational strategy, community leadership, and people management—which are the qualities I’d want to be at the heads of EA organisations. The suggestion by Sean about a co-directorship might be a good one for many EA orgs perhaps? I sense that we’re probably very over-indexed in excellent reseachers and under-indexed in organisational experts, so this might be a way of not letting the former crowd out the latter for these leadership roles.
Final quick points for clarification:
I’ve never run or been part of leading a significant organisation myself, so these thoughts can definitely be wrong! And I’d appreciate explanations as to why
My apriori view that Will and Nick might not be the best org leaders in EA doesn’t mean I don’t like them as people, or I don’t like their work
I’m open to the point of view that these EA thought leaders end up leading orgs because there are few others putting themselves forward. I assume those running EA orgs have the evidence for this one way or the other, and if true it’d be a good thing to look at rectifying.
(context: worked at FHI for 2 years, no longer affiliated with it but still in touch with some people who are)
I’d probably frame/emphasize things a bit differently myself but agree with the general thrust of this, and think it’d be both overdue and in everyone’s interest.
The obvious lack of vetting of the apology was pretty disqualifying w.r.t. judgment for someone in such a prominent institutional and community position, even before getting to the content (on which I’ve commented elsewhere).
I’d add, re: pre-existing issues, that FHI as an institution has failed at doing super basic things like at least semi-regularly updating key components of their website*; the org’s shortcomings re: diversity have been obvious from the beginning and the apology was the last nail in the coffin re: chances for improving on that front as long as he’s in charge; and I don’t think I know anyone who thinks he adds net positive value as a manager** (vs. as a researcher, where I agree he has made important contributions, but that could continue without him wasting a critical leadership position, and as a founder, where his work is done).
*e.g. the news banner thing displays 6 year old news; no publications at all were added to the publication page in all of last year, despite there definitely being several publications; etc.
**Edit: Sean’s comment above suggests he maybe thinks Nick added value as a manager during a period that didn’t overlap with mine, and I know Sean, so maybe I spoke too strongly here :) unclear if he meant as manager, or founder, or research visionary, or what, though. In any case, I think it is fair to say, from what I know, that many people who have been at FHI don’t think he’s a super active or effective manager.
Meta-note re: my commenting non-anonymously:
To be clear, I ’d say the same thing to Nick if asked, and mean what I said re: “in everyone’s interest”—I assume he wants FHI to succeed. I suspect/hope Nick would wants friends/colleagues “to disagree with [him] both publicly and privately; … who will admonish [him], gently but firmly, with whatever grain of truth there is in any accusations against me.” (from this article https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/21/opinion/cancel-culture-friendship.html - while I don’t like the term cancel culture and, like OP here, don’t think it’s an apt description of this situation, some of the points are relevant here).
Also, I felt very conflicted about posting this, both because I’ve benefited in the past from both Nick’s work and him hiring me, and because posting here stress me a lot (I expect lots of downvotes in absolute terms, though unsure how things will net out). This all stresses me out a lot. But I went ahead because I want FHI to be able to move on and thrive.
Edit: note I tweaked this comment a fair bit after reflecting on it some more, especially the last part, and I also wanted to signal-boost one of the comments in the thread from Jonas referenced above, here: https://twitter.com/JonasSandbrink/status/1631677091996393472?s=20 The point about mentorship is a big part of what I was gesturing at re: management effectiveness.
So I don’t have any extra knowledge to add to FHI, but I think this quote hits on something key:
There are a few cases like this where excellent EA researchers end up as org leaders, but this is not the thing that they’re best at. From other people’s reports in this thread Bostrom seems to be a textbook example here. I’d also say MacAskill and Backstead come to my mind here given that they are board members of EVF, but their background/experience/expertise is mostly in academic philosophy as far as my outside view can tell.[1]
I can see the argument that you’d want someone with this background who has deep knowledge of the movement’s philosophical tradition and arguments to be on a board, but I’d be surprised if the very best people in EA at research/idea generation would also be the very best we have at organisational strategy, community leadership, and people management—which are the qualities I’d want to be at the heads of EA organisations. The suggestion by Sean about a co-directorship might be a good one for many EA orgs perhaps? I sense that we’re probably very over-indexed in excellent reseachers and under-indexed in organisational experts, so this might be a way of not letting the former crowd out the latter for these leadership roles.
Final quick points for clarification:
I’ve never run or been part of leading a significant organisation myself, so these thoughts can definitely be wrong! And I’d appreciate explanations as to why
My apriori view that Will and Nick might not be the best org leaders in EA doesn’t mean I don’t like them as people, or I don’t like their work
I’m open to the point of view that these EA thought leaders end up leading orgs because there are few others putting themselves forward. I assume those running EA orgs have the evidence for this one way or the other, and if true it’d be a good thing to look at rectifying.
I’m sure this pattern holds for other orgs as well, EVF is just what came to mind