This comment is just out of complete curiosity, and even thinking about this I find really distasteful.
Quick question — one thing I’ve noticed is that it seems pretty easy to fake participation in volunteer events, especially virtual ones. Do you think it’s bad to do that just to boost volunteer hours?
For example, I recently did about 8 hours of virtual volunteering. I wasn’t super productive the whole time, but I did technically spend those hours working. Would it be bad to pretend to have done an event that can’t really be verified (like writing cards for the military)?
There probably would be employment consequences if someone got caught, which is one of the major reasons why I don’t want to do this even though I don’t there is any system present to even remotely verify this.
That, and also I find lying like this to be pretty repugnant.
However, in context of utilitarian ethics, I can’t help feel like this is some sort of strange moral obligation or moral “should”.
Not the original responder but wanted to jump in anyway, hope that’s ok!
This seems likely to fail even in utilitarian or expected value terms. As you mentioned, the employment consequences (and/or consequences for the CCG program as a whole) would be serious, and even with a small chance of being caught, I reckon the expected value would be net negative.
But even if that weren’t true, I think you should take seriously that it would feel pretty repugnant; taking common-sense morality into account alongside utilitarianism is important IMO.
Having said all that, your efforts to find ways to do more good are commendable; thank you for thinking about this and engaging about it here! I just think you should focus those efforts on tactics that are above board.
I think it’s probably bad to fake participation. It’s going to affect your underlying moral compass which will set you up badly for the future. There’s a (fascinating) whole section on this on the 80,000 hours website about how ultilitarians might think about “for the greater good” kinds of justifications: https://80000hours.org/articles/harmful-career/
However, if you are actually volunteering, I don’t think it’s bad to put that down, even if you’re not doing something super “official”. So if you do find yourself writing any cards for the military (or for Amnesty International), you can log it!
I also sympathise with the feelings you have to be doing something, even if you can’t really afford to be doing anything right now. I recommend you have a chat to any EAs you know personally about that—it’s a common feeling, and talking to others about it can help you feel less alone.
Hey, I appreciate the response!
This comment is just out of complete curiosity, and even thinking about this I find really distasteful.
Quick question — one thing I’ve noticed is that it seems pretty easy to fake participation in volunteer events, especially virtual ones. Do you think it’s bad to do that just to boost volunteer hours?
For example, I recently did about 8 hours of virtual volunteering. I wasn’t super productive the whole time, but I did technically spend those hours working. Would it be bad to pretend to have done an event that can’t really be verified (like writing cards for the military)?
There probably would be employment consequences if someone got caught, which is one of the major reasons why I don’t want to do this even though I don’t there is any system present to even remotely verify this.
That, and also I find lying like this to be pretty repugnant.
However, in context of utilitarian ethics, I can’t help feel like this is some sort of strange moral obligation or moral “should”.
Thanks.
Not the original responder but wanted to jump in anyway, hope that’s ok!
This seems likely to fail even in utilitarian or expected value terms. As you mentioned, the employment consequences (and/or consequences for the CCG program as a whole) would be serious, and even with a small chance of being caught, I reckon the expected value would be net negative.
But even if that weren’t true, I think you should take seriously that it would feel pretty repugnant; taking common-sense morality into account alongside utilitarianism is important IMO.
Having said all that, your efforts to find ways to do more good are commendable; thank you for thinking about this and engaging about it here! I just think you should focus those efforts on tactics that are above board.
I think it’s probably bad to fake participation. It’s going to affect your underlying moral compass which will set you up badly for the future. There’s a (fascinating) whole section on this on the 80,000 hours website about how ultilitarians might think about “for the greater good” kinds of justifications: https://80000hours.org/articles/harmful-career/
However, if you are actually volunteering, I don’t think it’s bad to put that down, even if you’re not doing something super “official”. So if you do find yourself writing any cards for the military (or for Amnesty International), you can log it!
I also sympathise with the feelings you have to be doing something, even if you can’t really afford to be doing anything right now. I recommend you have a chat to any EAs you know personally about that—it’s a common feeling, and talking to others about it can help you feel less alone.