I would say you have no obligation to do this volunteering work, if itâs not something youâd like to do. The $ per hour of donation amount is really small. So from an EA perspective itâs an extremely inefficient use of time and effort as compared to being more productive at work, getting a raise, and donating (a portion of) the raise. One good thing about EA is that when needed you can dial your level of effort way back by choosing a more efficient option, and morally justify it by the fact youâre still having the same total impact level.
I generally recommend doing a bit of volunteering if your work supports it, itâs good for your mental health. But pick something you like, and if you donât like it, donât do it.
For what itâs worth, I earn less than half of what you earn and I donate 10%. But I understand that it can be difficult to stand up to your parents, and Iâm several years into earning so I have some savings cushion and therefore my donations donât affect my present, they affect my retirement.
If youâre worried about what the threshold should be: why not visit Giving What We Can, sign a 1% or 10% (or whatever %) pledge and put your income in for tracking, and then you can backfill the actual donations when you feel more financially stable? Itâs a bit like loaning yourself your pledge money until youâre in a more stable life position!
This comment is just out of complete curiosity, and even thinking about this I find really distasteful.
Quick question â one thing Iâve noticed is that it seems pretty easy to fake participation in volunteer events, especially virtual ones. Do you think itâs bad to do that just to boost volunteer hours?
For example, I recently did about 8 hours of virtual volunteering. I wasnât super productive the whole time, but I did technically spend those hours working. Would it be bad to pretend to have done an event that canât really be verified (like writing cards for the military)?
There probably would be employment consequences if someone got caught, which is one of the major reasons why I donât want to do this even though I donât there is any system present to even remotely verify this.
That, and also I find lying like this to be pretty repugnant.
However, in context of utilitarian ethics, I canât help feel like this is some sort of strange moral obligation or moral âshouldâ.
Not the original responder but wanted to jump in anyway, hope thatâs ok!
This seems likely to fail even in utilitarian or expected value terms. As you mentioned, the employment consequences (and/âor consequences for the CCG program as a whole) would be serious, and even with a small chance of being caught, I reckon the expected value would be net negative.
But even if that werenât true, I think you should take seriously that it would feel pretty repugnant; taking common-sense morality into account alongside utilitarianism is important IMO.
Having said all that, your efforts to find ways to do more good are commendable; thank you for thinking about this and engaging about it here! I just think you should focus those efforts on tactics that are above board.
I think itâs probably bad to fake participation. Itâs going to affect your underlying moral compass which will set you up badly for the future. Thereâs a (fascinating) whole section on this on the 80,000 hours website about how ultilitarians might think about âfor the greater goodâ kinds of justifications: https://ââ80000hours.org/ââarticles/ââharmful-career/ââ
However, if you are actually volunteering, I donât think itâs bad to put that down, even if youâre not doing something super âofficialâ. So if you do find yourself writing any cards for the military (or for Amnesty International), you can log it!
I also sympathise with the feelings you have to be doing something, even if you canât really afford to be doing anything right now. I recommend you have a chat to any EAs you know personally about thatâitâs a common feeling, and talking to others about it can help you feel less alone.
Thanks for donating and the CCG work!
I would say you have no obligation to do this volunteering work, if itâs not something youâd like to do. The $ per hour of donation amount is really small. So from an EA perspective itâs an extremely inefficient use of time and effort as compared to being more productive at work, getting a raise, and donating (a portion of) the raise. One good thing about EA is that when needed you can dial your level of effort way back by choosing a more efficient option, and morally justify it by the fact youâre still having the same total impact level.
I generally recommend doing a bit of volunteering if your work supports it, itâs good for your mental health. But pick something you like, and if you donât like it, donât do it.
For what itâs worth, I earn less than half of what you earn and I donate 10%. But I understand that it can be difficult to stand up to your parents, and Iâm several years into earning so I have some savings cushion and therefore my donations donât affect my present, they affect my retirement.
If youâre worried about what the threshold should be: why not visit Giving What We Can, sign a 1% or 10% (or whatever %) pledge and put your income in for tracking, and then you can backfill the actual donations when you feel more financially stable? Itâs a bit like loaning yourself your pledge money until youâre in a more stable life position!
Hey, I appreciate the response!
This comment is just out of complete curiosity, and even thinking about this I find really distasteful.
Quick question â one thing Iâve noticed is that it seems pretty easy to fake participation in volunteer events, especially virtual ones. Do you think itâs bad to do that just to boost volunteer hours?
For example, I recently did about 8 hours of virtual volunteering. I wasnât super productive the whole time, but I did technically spend those hours working. Would it be bad to pretend to have done an event that canât really be verified (like writing cards for the military)?
There probably would be employment consequences if someone got caught, which is one of the major reasons why I donât want to do this even though I donât there is any system present to even remotely verify this.
That, and also I find lying like this to be pretty repugnant.
However, in context of utilitarian ethics, I canât help feel like this is some sort of strange moral obligation or moral âshouldâ.
Thanks.
Not the original responder but wanted to jump in anyway, hope thatâs ok!
This seems likely to fail even in utilitarian or expected value terms. As you mentioned, the employment consequences (and/âor consequences for the CCG program as a whole) would be serious, and even with a small chance of being caught, I reckon the expected value would be net negative.
But even if that werenât true, I think you should take seriously that it would feel pretty repugnant; taking common-sense morality into account alongside utilitarianism is important IMO.
Having said all that, your efforts to find ways to do more good are commendable; thank you for thinking about this and engaging about it here! I just think you should focus those efforts on tactics that are above board.
I think itâs probably bad to fake participation. Itâs going to affect your underlying moral compass which will set you up badly for the future. Thereâs a (fascinating) whole section on this on the 80,000 hours website about how ultilitarians might think about âfor the greater goodâ kinds of justifications: https://ââ80000hours.org/ââarticles/ââharmful-career/ââ
However, if you are actually volunteering, I donât think itâs bad to put that down, even if youâre not doing something super âofficialâ. So if you do find yourself writing any cards for the military (or for Amnesty International), you can log it!
I also sympathise with the feelings you have to be doing something, even if you canât really afford to be doing anything right now. I recommend you have a chat to any EAs you know personally about thatâitâs a common feeling, and talking to others about it can help you feel less alone.