I think the problem isn’t with saying you downvoted a post and why (I personally share the view that people should aim to explain their downvotes).
The problem is the actual reason:
I think you’re pointing to some important issues… However, I worry that you’re conflating a few pretty different dimensions, so I downvoted this post.
The message that, for me, stands out from this is “If you have an important idea but can’t present it perfectly—it’s better not to write at all.” Which I think most of us would not endorse.
I didn’t get that message at all. If someone tells me they downvoted something I wrote, my default takeaway is “oh, I could have been more clear” or “huh, maybe I need to add something that was missing” — not “yikes, I shouldn’t have written this”. *
I read Max’s comment as “I thought this wasn’t written very clearly/got some things wrong”, not “I think you shouldn’t have written this at all”. The latter is, to me, almost the definition of a strong downvote.
If someone sees a post they think (a) points to important issues, and (b) gets important things wrong, any of upvote/downvote/decline-to-vote seems reasonable to me.
*This is partly because I’ve stopped feeling very nervous about Forum posts after years of experience. I know plenty of people who do have the “yikes” reaction. But that’s where the users’ identities and relationship comes into play — I’d feel somewhat differently had Max said the same thing to a new poster.
I don’t share your view about what a downvote means. However, regardless of what I think, it doesn’t actually have any fixed meaning beyond that which people a assign to it—so it’d be interesting to have some stats on how people on the forum interpret it.
But that’s where the users’ identities and relationship comes into play — I’d feel somewhat differently had Max said the same thing to a new poster.
Most(?) readers won’t know who either of them is, not to mention their relationship.
I don’t share your view about what a downvote means.
What does a downvote mean to you? If it means “you shouldn’t have written this”, what does a strong downvote mean to you? The same thing, but with more emphasis?
It’d be interesting to have some stats on how people on the forum interpret it.
Why not create a poll? I would, but I’m not sure exactly which question you’d want asked.
Most(?) readers won’t know who either of them is, not to mention their relationship.
Which brings up another question — to what extent should a comment be written for an author vs. the audience?
Max’s comment seemed very directed at Luke — it was mostly about the style of Luke’s writing and his way of drawing conclusions. Other comments feel more audience-directed.
Personally, I primarily downvote posts/comments where I generally think “reading this post/comment will on average make forum readers be worse at thinking about this problem than if they didn’t read this post/comment, assuming that the time spent reading this post/comment is free.”
I basically never strong downvote posts unless it’s obvious spam or otherwise an extremely bad offender in the “worsens thinking” direction.
It’s been over a week so I guess I should answer even if I don’t have time for a longer reply.
What does a downvote mean to you? If it means “you shouldn’t have written this”, what does a strong downvote mean to you? The same thing, but with more emphasis?
I think so, but I’m not very confident.
to what extent should a comment be written for an author vs. the audience?
I don’t think private conversations can exist on a public platform. If it’s not a DM, there’s always an audience, and in most contexts, I’d expect much of a comment’s impact to come from its effects on that audience.
Why not create a poll?
The polls in that specific group look like they have a very small and probably unrepresentative sample size. Though I don’t we’ll be able to get a much larger one on such a question, I guess.
I think the problem isn’t with saying you downvoted a post and why (I personally share the view that people should aim to explain their downvotes).
The problem is the actual reason:
The message that, for me, stands out from this is “If you have an important idea but can’t present it perfectly—it’s better not to write at all.” Which I think most of us would not endorse.
I didn’t get that message at all. If someone tells me they downvoted something I wrote, my default takeaway is “oh, I could have been more clear” or “huh, maybe I need to add something that was missing” — not “yikes, I shouldn’t have written this”. *
I read Max’s comment as “I thought this wasn’t written very clearly/got some things wrong”, not “I think you shouldn’t have written this at all”. The latter is, to me, almost the definition of a strong downvote.
If someone sees a post they think (a) points to important issues, and (b) gets important things wrong, any of upvote/downvote/decline-to-vote seems reasonable to me.
*This is partly because I’ve stopped feeling very nervous about Forum posts after years of experience. I know plenty of people who do have the “yikes” reaction. But that’s where the users’ identities and relationship comes into play — I’d feel somewhat differently had Max said the same thing to a new poster.
I don’t share your view about what a downvote means. However, regardless of what I think, it doesn’t actually have any fixed meaning beyond that which people a assign to it—so it’d be interesting to have some stats on how people on the forum interpret it.
Most(?) readers won’t know who either of them is, not to mention their relationship.
What does a downvote mean to you? If it means “you shouldn’t have written this”, what does a strong downvote mean to you? The same thing, but with more emphasis?
Why not create a poll? I would, but I’m not sure exactly which question you’d want asked.
Which brings up another question — to what extent should a comment be written for an author vs. the audience?
Max’s comment seemed very directed at Luke — it was mostly about the style of Luke’s writing and his way of drawing conclusions. Other comments feel more audience-directed.
Personally, I primarily downvote posts/comments where I generally think “reading this post/comment will on average make forum readers be worse at thinking about this problem than if they didn’t read this post/comment, assuming that the time spent reading this post/comment is free.”
I basically never strong downvote posts unless it’s obvious spam or otherwise an extremely bad offender in the “worsens thinking” direction.
It’s been over a week so I guess I should answer even if I don’t have time for a longer reply.
I think so, but I’m not very confident.
I don’t think private conversations can exist on a public platform. If it’s not a DM, there’s always an audience, and in most contexts, I’d expect much of a comment’s impact to come from its effects on that audience.
The polls in that specific group look like they have a very small and probably unrepresentative sample size. Though I don’t we’ll be able to get a much larger one on such a question, I guess.