80k seems to exist in a strange equilibrium where they are always asking more people to apply but also rejecting many people. The revealed preferences here are so clear as to be pretty cutting at times. Is there a way that people can orient towards applying even though there is a high chance of rejection?
I was rejected from career advising when I applied! So I definitely am aware it can be costly. I won’t name names, but I also know of some other people who have gone on to have successful careers in the space who were rejected. Sometimes, this is because reviewing is hard, and we make mistakes. Sometimes, this is because the thing the applicant needs most is to just read more of 80k’s broad advice before trying to tailor it specifically to them. We’re trying to use our time as best we can and to provide support to the people who would most benefit from our advice, so if we can cast a wider net and get more of those people to apply, we want to do that. But I hope we can minimize these costs anyone experiences. I know some people benefit just from thinking through the questions in the application, and we’ve updated the application to make it less work for people. And we really encourage people not to take it as a strong negative signal if they don’t get an advising call — I’d appreciate any additional suggestions on how to convey this message!
> Is there a way that people can orient towards applying even though there is a high chance of rejection?
While it’s easier said than done, I’d try to think of applying as being mostly upside—the application is a useful exercise for career planning in and of itself, and then if we think it makes sense to have a call, you’ll get some extra advice.
Yeah, I always feel bad when people who want to do good get rejected from advising. In general, you should not update too much on getting rejected from advising. We decide not to invite people for calls for many reasons. For example, there are some people who are doing great work who aren’t at a place yet where we think we can be much help, such as freshmen who would benefit more from reading the (free!) 80,000 Hours career guide than speaking to an advisor for half an hour.
Also, you can totally apply again 6 months after your initial application and we will not consider it the least bit spammy. (I’ve spoken to many people who got rejected the first time they applied!)
Another thing to consider is that a lot of the value from the call can be captured by doing these things:
Read our online career guide
Take time to reflect on your values and career. Give yourself 1 hour of dedicated time to do this. Fill out the doc that we would have gone through during the call here: Career Reflection Template
Send your answers on the doc to somebody you trust to get feedback on how you’re thinking through things.
80k seems to exist in a strange equilibrium where they are always asking more people to apply but also rejecting many people. The revealed preferences here are so clear as to be pretty cutting at times. Is there a way that people can orient towards applying even though there is a high chance of rejection?
I was rejected from career advising when I applied! So I definitely am aware it can be costly. I won’t name names, but I also know of some other people who have gone on to have successful careers in the space who were rejected. Sometimes, this is because reviewing is hard, and we make mistakes. Sometimes, this is because the thing the applicant needs most is to just read more of 80k’s broad advice before trying to tailor it specifically to them. We’re trying to use our time as best we can and to provide support to the people who would most benefit from our advice, so if we can cast a wider net and get more of those people to apply, we want to do that. But I hope we can minimize these costs anyone experiences. I know some people benefit just from thinking through the questions in the application, and we’ve updated the application to make it less work for people. And we really encourage people not to take it as a strong negative signal if they don’t get an advising call — I’d appreciate any additional suggestions on how to convey this message!
> Is there a way that people can orient towards applying even though there is a high chance of rejection?
While it’s easier said than done, I’d try to think of applying as being mostly upside—the application is a useful exercise for career planning in and of itself, and then if we think it makes sense to have a call, you’ll get some extra advice.
Yeah, I always feel bad when people who want to do good get rejected from advising. In general, you should not update too much on getting rejected from advising. We decide not to invite people for calls for many reasons. For example, there are some people who are doing great work who aren’t at a place yet where we think we can be much help, such as freshmen who would benefit more from reading the (free!) 80,000 Hours career guide than speaking to an advisor for half an hour.
Also, you can totally apply again 6 months after your initial application and we will not consider it the least bit spammy. (I’ve spoken to many people who got rejected the first time they applied!)
Another thing to consider is that a lot of the value from the call can be captured by doing these things:
Read our online career guide
Take time to reflect on your values and career. Give yourself 1 hour of dedicated time to do this. Fill out the doc that we would have gone through during the call here: Career Reflection Template
Send your answers on the doc to somebody you trust to get feedback on how you’re thinking through things.
I expect the tradeoff here to work better the easier it is to apply