I would strongly advise against making reference checks even earlier in the process. In your particular case, I think it would have been better for both the applicants and the referees if you had done the reference check even later—only after deciding to make an offer (conditional on the references being alright).
Request for references early in the process have put me off applying for specific roles and would again. I’m not sure whether I have unusual preferences but I would be surprised if I did. References put a burden on the referees which I am only willing to impose in exceptional circumstances, and that only for a very limited number of times.
I’m not confident how the referees actually feel about giving references. When I had to give references, I found it mildly inconvenient and would certainly been unhappy if I had to do it numerous times (with either a call or an email).
But for imposing costs on the applicants, it is not important how the referees actually feel about giving references—what matters is how applicants think they feel about it.
If you ask for references early, you might put off a fraction of your applicant pool you don’t want to put off.
This seems to be something that varies a lot by field. In academic jobs (and PhD applications), it’s absolutely standard to ask for references in the first round of applications, and to ask for as many as 3. It’s a really useful part of the process, and since academics know that, they don’t begrudge writing references fairly frequently.
Writing frequent references in academia might be a bit easier than when people are applying for other types of jobs: a supervisor can simply have a letter on file for a past student saying how good they are at research and send that out each time they’re asked for a reference. Another thing which might contribute to academia using references more is it being a very competitive field, where large returns are expected from differentiating between the very best candidate and the next best. As an employer, I’ve found references very helpful. So if we expect EA orgs to have competitive hiring rounds where there are large returns on finding the best candidate, it could be worth our spending more time writing/giving references than is typical.
I find it difficult to gauge how off-putting asking for references early would be for the typical candidate. In my last job application, I gave a number of referees, some of whom were contacted at the time of my trial, and I felt fine about that—but that could be because I’m used to academia, or because my referees were in the EA community and so I knew they would value the org I was applying for making the right hiring decision, rather than experience giving a reference as an undue burden.
I would guess the most important in asking for references early is being willing to accept not getting a references from current employers / colleagues, since if you don’t know whether you have a job offer you’re often not going to want your current employer to know you’re applying for other jobs.
I think that also depends on the country. In my experience, references don’t play such an important role in Germany as they do in UK/US. Especially the practice that referees have to submit their reference directly to the university is uncommon in Germany. Usually, referees would write a letter of reference for you, and then the applicant can hand it in. Also, having references tailored to the specific application (which seems to be expected in UK/US) is not common in Germany.
So, yes, I am also hesitant to ask my academic referees too often. If I knew that they would be contacted early in application processes, I would certainly apply for less positions. For example, I maybe wouldn’t apply for positions that I probably won’t get but would be great if they worked out.
I think Stefan’s (and my) idea is to do the reference checks slightly earlier, e.g. at the point when deciding whether to offer a trial, but not in the first rounds of the application process. At that point, the expected benefit is almost as high as it is at the very end of the process, and thus probably worth the cost.
This avoids having to ask for references very early in the application process, but has the additional benefit of potentially improving the decision whether to invite someone to a trial a lot, thereby saving applicants and employers a lot of time and energy (in expectation).
I think that references are a big deal and putting them off as a ‘safety check’ after the offer is made seems weird. That said, I agree with them being a blocker for applicants at the early stage—wanting to ask a senior person to be a reference if they’re seriously being considered, but not ask if they’re not, and not wanting to bet wrong.
To be clear, I meant asking for a reference before an offer is actually made, at the stage when offers are being decided (so that applicants who don’t receive offers one way or the other don’t ‘use up’ their references).
I would strongly advise against making reference checks even earlier in the process. In your particular case, I think it would have been better for both the applicants and the referees if you had done the reference check even later—only after deciding to make an offer (conditional on the references being alright).
Request for references early in the process have put me off applying for specific roles and would again. I’m not sure whether I have unusual preferences but I would be surprised if I did. References put a burden on the referees which I am only willing to impose in exceptional circumstances, and that only for a very limited number of times.
I’m not confident how the referees actually feel about giving references. When I had to give references, I found it mildly inconvenient and would certainly been unhappy if I had to do it numerous times (with either a call or an email).
But for imposing costs on the applicants, it is not important how the referees actually feel about giving references—what matters is how applicants think they feel about it.
If you ask for references early, you might put off a fraction of your applicant pool you don’t want to put off.
This seems to be something that varies a lot by field. In academic jobs (and PhD applications), it’s absolutely standard to ask for references in the first round of applications, and to ask for as many as 3. It’s a really useful part of the process, and since academics know that, they don’t begrudge writing references fairly frequently.
Writing frequent references in academia might be a bit easier than when people are applying for other types of jobs: a supervisor can simply have a letter on file for a past student saying how good they are at research and send that out each time they’re asked for a reference. Another thing which might contribute to academia using references more is it being a very competitive field, where large returns are expected from differentiating between the very best candidate and the next best. As an employer, I’ve found references very helpful. So if we expect EA orgs to have competitive hiring rounds where there are large returns on finding the best candidate, it could be worth our spending more time writing/giving references than is typical.
I find it difficult to gauge how off-putting asking for references early would be for the typical candidate. In my last job application, I gave a number of referees, some of whom were contacted at the time of my trial, and I felt fine about that—but that could be because I’m used to academia, or because my referees were in the EA community and so I knew they would value the org I was applying for making the right hiring decision, rather than experience giving a reference as an undue burden.
I would guess the most important in asking for references early is being willing to accept not getting a references from current employers / colleagues, since if you don’t know whether you have a job offer you’re often not going to want your current employer to know you’re applying for other jobs.
I think that also depends on the country. In my experience, references don’t play such an important role in Germany as they do in UK/US. Especially the practice that referees have to submit their reference directly to the university is uncommon in Germany. Usually, referees would write a letter of reference for you, and then the applicant can hand it in. Also, having references tailored to the specific application (which seems to be expected in UK/US) is not common in Germany.
So, yes, I am also hesitant to ask my academic referees too often. If I knew that they would be contacted early in application processes, I would certainly apply for less positions. For example, I maybe wouldn’t apply for positions that I probably won’t get but would be great if they worked out.
I think Stefan’s (and my) idea is to do the reference checks slightly earlier, e.g. at the point when deciding whether to offer a trial, but not in the first rounds of the application process. At that point, the expected benefit is almost as high as it is at the very end of the process, and thus probably worth the cost.
This avoids having to ask for references very early in the application process, but has the additional benefit of potentially improving the decision whether to invite someone to a trial a lot, thereby saving applicants and employers a lot of time and energy (in expectation).
I think that references are a big deal and putting them off as a ‘safety check’ after the offer is made seems weird. That said, I agree with them being a blocker for applicants at the early stage—wanting to ask a senior person to be a reference if they’re seriously being considered, but not ask if they’re not, and not wanting to bet wrong.
To be clear, I meant asking for a reference before an offer is actually made, at the stage when offers are being decided (so that applicants who don’t receive offers one way or the other don’t ‘use up’ their references).
Thanks for your response, Denise! That’s a helpful perspective, and we’ll take it into account next time.