The best LessWrong content is usually much better-written than the best Forum content, and I think style norms are a big part of the reason why.
I so agree.
That said, it’s important to note that what counts as “engaging” will vary a lot by context. I find virtually all multi-panel memes intensely annoying
Very true! Tastes definitely vary. In fact, this example is perfect, because I’ve also heard from some people that the meme was the only reason they read the post in the first place.
I wonder if this might actually be part of the mechanism by which people end up being incentivized to write dry things. It’s like why houses are all boring colors. Because nobody doesn’t buy a house because it’s boring looking, but people do not buy a house if it’s an interesting color. Of course, some people are also much more likely to buy it if it’s a cool color.
Similarly with writing, nobody will leave a negative comment about how the article was boring (and I support this! That would be a terrible norm to have), but people will be more likely to leave a comment saying they don’t like some more out there style, etc. Basically, you’re exposing yourself to more potential criticism. Or a more bimodal distribution of reactions, and most people (including myself), feel negative feedback far more than positive.
Dry writing feels safe in a way that engaging writing doesn’t.
I wonder if this might actually be part of the mechanism by which people end up being incentivized to write dry things. It’s like why houses are all boring colors. Because nobody doesn’t buy a house because it’s boring looking, but people do not buy a house if it’s an interesting color. Of course, some people are also much more likely to buy it if it’s a cool color.
Similarly with writing, nobody will leave a negative comment about how the article was boring (and I support this! That would be a terrible norm to have), but people will be more likely to leave a comment saying they don’t like some more out there style, etc. Basically, you’re exposing yourself to more potential criticism. Or a more bimodal distribution of reactions, and most people (including myself), feel negative feedback far more than positive.
Dry writing feels safe in a way that engaging writing doesn’t.
I basically agree with this!
My main reservation is that there are many ways to make writing less dull that I really don’t want on the Forum (mockery, clickbait, aggression/combativeness, et cetera). I’d very happily take the current Forum (which isn’t that dull) over one that was more entertaining but had significantly worse discourse norms.
For example, one of the reasons I don’t read LessWrong all that much is because a number of prominent users write in a tendentious, combative, unqualified style that I think is bad for collective epistemics and the world, even though it’s engaging. I wouldn’t be excited about importing that onto the Forum.
I don’t think the OP is arguing for any of these bad things – there are also various ways to make writing more engaging without doing bad stuff! But I do want to point out that “engaging” is a big place, and contains many areas that are worse than our current home in “dry”.
I so agree.
Very true! Tastes definitely vary. In fact, this example is perfect, because I’ve also heard from some people that the meme was the only reason they read the post in the first place.
I wonder if this might actually be part of the mechanism by which people end up being incentivized to write dry things. It’s like why houses are all boring colors. Because nobody doesn’t buy a house because it’s boring looking, but people do not buy a house if it’s an interesting color. Of course, some people are also much more likely to buy it if it’s a cool color.
Similarly with writing, nobody will leave a negative comment about how the article was boring (and I support this! That would be a terrible norm to have), but people will be more likely to leave a comment saying they don’t like some more out there style, etc. Basically, you’re exposing yourself to more potential criticism. Or a more bimodal distribution of reactions, and most people (including myself), feel negative feedback far more than positive.
Dry writing feels safe in a way that engaging writing doesn’t.
I basically agree with this!
My main reservation is that there are many ways to make writing less dull that I really don’t want on the Forum (mockery, clickbait, aggression/combativeness, et cetera). I’d very happily take the current Forum (which isn’t that dull) over one that was more entertaining but had significantly worse discourse norms.
For example, one of the reasons I don’t read LessWrong all that much is because a number of prominent users write in a tendentious, combative, unqualified style that I think is bad for collective epistemics and the world, even though it’s engaging. I wouldn’t be excited about importing that onto the Forum.
I don’t think the OP is arguing for any of these bad things – there are also various ways to make writing more engaging without doing bad stuff! But I do want to point out that “engaging” is a big place, and contains many areas that are worse than our current home in “dry”.