I’m talking specifically of an EA group.
Anyone have experiences or thoughts on if their local EA group became super toxic and was full of people that they thought were super questionable? What do you do when for instance, that group has a few people who are working on the same things you are (I.e, same career area) and so you feel that if you chose to work on your career separate from this community (instead of forcing yourself within it) your career would be hampered in some way? (Eg having to interact with them, not work with each other, same network where they might be community builders hosting events so you feel so unwelcome in those)
I’ve for a while now felt a couple groups (not all) I’ve been in EA can be quite toxic, especially certain individuals. So it feels right to stay far away and not work with them at all. But you’re worried since the talent pool is quite small it would be negative to not join forces in someway.
I guess further, I’ve been feeling more disenthused with EA groups the past year, the group I was part of definitely had a lot of toxic community builders and members who said bad things, very red flag type things.
It scares me to feel this way because it feels like it leaves me more alone among people who should care about things I do but they would actually seem not to (not all of them) and I think I could hamper my impact and career because I would be alone. It has made me seriously consider quitting EA and even the area I’m working on now just to be away from them because it’s impossible not to interact with them if not.
What advice does anyone have for me? Does anyone have similar experiences? How do you thrive in an EA career outside of EA when the network is so strong within EA? For instance if I want to work on X cause area but do not want to involve myself with EA specifically anymore, how can I be successful especially if the talent pool from where I’m from is quite small for that particular cause area? I keep thinking, if I distance myself from this pool then I might also distance myself from opportunity.
Some people I think who are not super directly “EA” but are doing good work are Jess Whittlestone, Jaime Yassif, etc. (correct me if I’m wrong)
Thoughts here? I’m really struggling with how I feel in this community and it’s been really awful for my mental health. I feel like the community I was part of has been very unfair and yeah, toxic and if other people around the community I know not part of this group heard what they were doing or what they said they would think it were red flaggy.
I might been roundabout there but this is a raw post/Q.
I don’t feel so comfortable talking to community health at the moment. I don’t currently feel comfortable talking to the CH of my group too. But to be open, some of these experiences revolve: 1) intentionally sabotaging specifically people in the community 2) spreading false information about people in the community 3) badmouthing people in the community unfairly 4) being questionable in their EA intentions 5) showing signs of strong arrogance (entitled to someone’s life information, throwing some mini tantrums when they’re not chosen for job, etc. there are more but I don’t think I should disclose that).
If these people were to go around doing stuff would people recommend they be reported or flagged or not? Would people who might work with them want to know this stuff? It might look weird if I proactively told people this stuff, might make me a hypocrite. I’m not here to ruin people’s careers or anything. But sometimes I feel very uneasy that I’ve just been quiet dealing with these people.
I’m not into cancelling or anything so I’m not doing anything like that. But I’ve been so tired of the toxicity people can have in EA communities I’ve interacted with. They’re overtly negative I think, and have long exhibited a heightened sense of entitlement and selective accountability, often perceiving disparities in opportunities as personal affronts or evidence of undue privilege, without giving any just or fair assessment or chances to anyone involved. They also justify their negative actions a lot.
I think this points to a wider discussion to be had about how to be in EA when you have a lot of people within the community you’ve had negative experiences with
Thanks in advance!
Do you think you’ll actually be effective at working on a cause area if you’re in a miserable environment with destroyed mental health ,where you’re liable to be actively sabotaged?
I’d encourage you to report the behaviour anyway, but if it persists you should not stay in that environment! It sounds like your options are:
a) move away and try your luck in a different location (and risk the new group being toxic as well)
b) Forge your own non-EA path in the area
c) stop working full-time in the cause area (you could earn-to-give, say, and contribute on the side if you feel like it).
You don’t need to be “in EA” to do good effectively! If your “EA” environment is shit, either change the environment or leave.
Hi, some thoughts from the community health team.
First, I’m sorry you’ve had this bad experience — we don’t want EA groups to be like this! I do notice that sub-areas within the same community can develop pretty different cultures, and I’m sorry you’ve ended up in an area where the culture is so discouraging.
There are options for professional networking in EA outside your local group if you decide you still want to, for example:
EA Anywhere online group
EA Global and EAGx conferences, especially meetups for specific fields
There may be an online group for your career area
You’ve likely already considered this, but if you leave your field to avoid needing to interact with these people, there’s a question of whether other fields are significantly better. Basically any field will include some people who do shady things — sites like Ask A Manager are full of people behaving badly in professional contexts. But interacting with a shady person in the same professional field is different from needing to work closely with them, and it’s much more possible to choose to work for a team or an organization you generally feel good about.
You mentioned you don’t feel that comfortable talking to the community health team — in case it’s helpful, you can ask us questions about how we work, or raise things anonymously via this form. (Please leave a burner email or something if you’d like us to get back to you!) You may want to talk to someone else at CEA, even if you don’t want to talk to our team — for example someone on the groups team if you have concerns about a group organizer.
Hi Polkashell,
There are indeed questionable people in EA, as in all communities. EA may be worse in some ways, because of its utilitarian bent, and because many of the best EAs have left the community in the last couple of years.
I think it’s common in EA for people to:
have high hopes in EA, and have them be dashed, when their preferred project is defunded, when a scandal breaks, and so on.
burn out, after they give a lot of effort to a project.
What can make such events more traumatic is if EA has become the source of their livelihood, meaning, friendships, etc., i.e. their whole life.
I think this risk can be reduced by expecting less from EA, and being less invested in it.
The fact that you’re already noticing discomfort with your local group suggests that it might be good to step away from EA, or at least hedge your bets in some way. That does not necessarily mean shying away from a cause area X just because there are some EA assholes in it. There are assholes everywhere, after all. But rather to figure out what kind of work, and what kind of life makes sense for you, rather than just from an EA perspective. Also, to maintain connections and support structures outside of EA.
I hope that helps
Is continued membership of the local group at all necessary for the career? Ultimately if you don’t like people, you probably don’t want to network with them to have the best possible chance of working alongside them. I know some EA cause areas are niche, but I think there are generally more people working in them who won’t be attending your local group than are, and ultimately developing your technical skill and getting good references from your colleagues is going to matter more.
Can you say why? That seems like the obvious first step, so it would make it easier to offer a useful alternative if you could share some part of your hesitation. I don’t know if it would feel any safer to message a stranger, but feel free to DM me your concerns if you prefer (or you can email me if you don’t want them stored on the EA forum). I’m not a support professional, but maybe have enough detachment from but also skin in the EA community to help you figure out next step.
Fwiw I’ve never meaningfully interacted with the community health team, but everyone I know who has has found the experience extremely sensitively dealt with. You certainly won’t be the first person to have had bad experiences with a community manager (and, not to place this on you as a burden, but there’s the extra upside that if other people report similar ‘minor’ concerns as you do that they might add up to someone taking action.)
I would also echo what others have said about being willing to step away from the community. Early career, if you have reasonable alternatives, I suspect you’ll do better personally, and possibly do most good overall if you work for a regular company and build up some skills for a while.