I agree that it’d be really valuable for more EA-aligned people to goddamn write summaries at all, to write them well in the ways this post explains, and to use this writing style in general (not just for the summary sections).
I think my own writing is much better as a result of adopting these practices.
I think this post is a really valuable resource for advocating for and explaining these tips, and I intend to often share it with people and to add it to my (somewhat messy) doc of Tips & readings on good writing/communication.
*Disclaimer: The author and I interact a lot and our views aren’t super independent.
Here are a couple other resources that I like and that people might also find useful on approximately this topic (besides just the “related work” you mention):
“You should usually include an actual tl;dr/summary/key takeaways section right near the start—even in most cases where you feel it’s unimportant or inappropriate.
(At least when writing for e.g. EAs. Sometimes when writing for mass audiences, you’ll better engage people by deliberately not making it clear what you’re writing about or what you’ll ultimately claim.)
Usually don’t just have a section with that sort of name but where you actually just say “This post will cover x, y, and z”
I don’t just want to know you say something about x, y, z; I want to know the core of what you actually say!
There’s a good chance you—whoever you are—think “The key takeaways are too complex to be explained briefly before someone has actually read my introduction, how I explain the terms, etc.” You’re probably wrong.
I kept thinking this for ~8 months, till finally the many many times I was advised to add summaries got to me and I started really trying to do that, at which point I realised it really was typically possible & valuable.
it’d be really valuable for more EA-aligned people to goddamn write summaries at all
To get more people to write summaries for long forum posts, we could try adding it to the forum new post submission form? e.g. if the post text is over x words, a small message shows up advising you to add a summary.
Or maybe you’re thinking more of other formats, like Google docs?
Yeah, I’ve actually discussed that idea briefly with the EA Forum team and I think it’d probably be good. I’ll send a link to this thread to them to give them one more data point in favor of doing this. (Though it’s plausible to me that there’s some reason they shouldn’t do this which I’m overlooking—I’d trust their bottom-line views here more than mine.)
But yeah, I’m also thinking of GDocs, blog posts posted elsewhere, and any other format, so I think we also need nudges like this post.
I think the main downside would be that some people might read only the summary and miss out on the reasoning parts, which are often the parts that are actually the most valuable. Or, relatedly, some authors like Scott Alexander do better when people have to read his hook and get sucked into his discursive style.
However, overall I’ve been sold on this idea, but do think that the UI would need to be done well. We haven’t prioritized it yet, but I’m definitely tempted, and I think that’s true for other team members as well.
fwiw, I think a good summary can & should also summarise the reasoning, not only the conclusions. (Though of course it’ll still miss many details of both the reasoning and the conclusions.)
I’d also flag that I think this should be some sort of nudge, suggestion, optional box to fill in, or whatever, rather than a required box. So people could still decide to not have a summary if they wanted, e.g. if that would mess with their engaging discursive style in a given piece.
Thanks for this post! As you know*:
I agree that it’d be really valuable for more EA-aligned people to goddamn write summaries at all, to write them well in the ways this post explains, and to use this writing style in general (not just for the summary sections).
I think my own writing is much better as a result of adopting these practices.
I think this post is a really valuable resource for advocating for and explaining these tips, and I intend to often share it with people and to add it to my (somewhat messy) doc of Tips & readings on good writing/communication.
*Disclaimer: The author and I interact a lot and our views aren’t super independent.
Here are a couple other resources that I like and that people might also find useful on approximately this topic (besides just the “related work” you mention):
Honesty about reading
The value of content density
And here are my own quick tips on summaries, from Tips & readings on good writing/communication, which are less useful than but somewhat complementary to this post:
“You should usually include an actual tl;dr/summary/key takeaways section right near the start—even in most cases where you feel it’s unimportant or inappropriate.
(At least when writing for e.g. EAs. Sometimes when writing for mass audiences, you’ll better engage people by deliberately not making it clear what you’re writing about or what you’ll ultimately claim.)
See Reasoning Transparency and Using the “executive summary” style: writing that respects your reader’s time
Usually don’t skip this section
Usually don’t just have a section with that sort of name but where you actually just say “This post will cover x, y, and z”
I don’t just want to know you say something about x, y, z; I want to know the core of what you actually say!
There’s a good chance you—whoever you are—think “The key takeaways are too complex to be explained briefly before someone has actually read my introduction, how I explain the terms, etc.” You’re probably wrong.
I kept thinking this for ~8 months, till finally the many many times I was advised to add summaries got to me and I started really trying to do that, at which point I realised it really was typically possible & valuable.
Have you actually spent 5 minutes, by the clock, really trying to summarise the key takeaways in a way that will make sense to a reader who hasn’t read the whole thing?
(There are some exceptions, e.g. for extremely short posts)”
To get more people to write summaries for long forum posts, we could try adding it to the forum new post submission form? e.g. if the post text is over x words, a small message shows up advising you to add a summary.
Or maybe you’re thinking more of other formats, like Google docs?
Yeah, I’ve actually discussed that idea briefly with the EA Forum team and I think it’d probably be good. I’ll send a link to this thread to them to give them one more data point in favor of doing this. (Though it’s plausible to me that there’s some reason they shouldn’t do this which I’m overlooking—I’d trust their bottom-line views here more than mine.)
But yeah, I’m also thinking of GDocs, blog posts posted elsewhere, and any other format, so I think we also need nudges like this post.
I think the main downside would be that some people might read only the summary and miss out on the reasoning parts, which are often the parts that are actually the most valuable. Or, relatedly, some authors like Scott Alexander do better when people have to read his hook and get sucked into his discursive style.
However, overall I’ve been sold on this idea, but do think that the UI would need to be done well. We haven’t prioritized it yet, but I’m definitely tempted, and I think that’s true for other team members as well.
Cool, glad to hear that.
fwiw, I think a good summary can & should also summarise the reasoning, not only the conclusions. (Though of course it’ll still miss many details of both the reasoning and the conclusions.)
I’d also flag that I think this should be some sort of nudge, suggestion, optional box to fill in, or whatever, rather than a required box. So people could still decide to not have a summary if they wanted, e.g. if that would mess with their engaging discursive style in a given piece.
I like your document, and I’ve saved it in my Google keep for future reference. So thanks!