I think people should take a step back and take a bird’s-eye view of the situation:
The author persistently conflates multiple communities: “tech, EA (Effective Altruists), rationalists, cybersecurity/hackers, crypto/blockchain, Burning Man camps, secret parties, and coliving houses”. In the Bay Area, “tech” is literally a double-digit percentage of the population.
The first archived snapshot of the website of the author’s consultancy (“working with survivors, communities, institutions, and workplaces to prevent and heal from sexual harassment and sexual assault”) was recorded in August 2022.
According to the CEA Community Health team: “The author emailed the Community Health team about 7 months ago, when she shared some information about interpersonal harm; someone else previously forwarded us some anonymous information that she may have compiled. Before about 7 months ago, we hadn’t been in contact with her.”
This would have been late July 2022.
From the same comment by the CEA Community Health team: “We have emailed the author to tell her we will not be contracting her services.”
Implied: the author attempted to sell her professional services to CEA.
The author, in the linked piece: “To be clear, I’m not advocating bans of the accused or accusers—I am advocating for communities to do more, for thorough investigations by trained/experienced professionals, and for accountability if an accusation is found credible. Untrained mediators and community representatives/liaisons who are only brought on for their popularity and/or nepotistic ties to the community, without thought to expertise, experience, or qualifications, such as the one in the story linked above (though there are others), often end up causing the survivors greater trauma.” (Emphasis mine.)
The author: “In February 2023, I calculated that I personally knew of/dealt with thirty different incidents in which there was a non-trivial chance the Centre for Effective Altruism or another organization(s) within the EA ecosystem could potentially be legally liable in a civil suit for sexual assault, or defamation/libel/slander for their role/action (note: I haven’t added the stories I’ve received post-February to this tally, nor do I know if counting incidents an accurate measure (eg, accused versus accusers) also I’ve gotten several stories since that time; nor is this legal advice and to get a more accurate assessment, I’d want to present the info to a legal team specializing in these matters). Each could cost hundreds of thousands and years to defend, even if they aren’t found liable. Of course, without discovery, investigation, and without consulting legal counsel, this is a guess/speculative, and I can’t say whether they’d be liable or rise to the level of a civil suit—not with certainty without formal legal advice and full investigations.” (Emphasis in original.)
The author: “In response to my speculation, the community health team denied they knew of my work prior to August 2022, and that it was not connected to EA. Three white community health team members have strongly insinuated that I’ve lied and treated me – an Asian-American – in much the gaslighting, silencing way that survivors reporting rape fear being treated. Many of the women who have publicly spoken up about sexual misconduct in EA are of Asian descent. As I stated in the previous paragraph, I haven’t yet consulted with lawyers, but I personally believe this is defamatory. Additionally, the Centre and Effective Ventures Foundation are in headquartered in a jurisdiction that is much more harsh on defamation than the one I’m in.” (Emphasis in original.)
The author: “Unlike most of these mediators and liaisons, I have training/formal education, mentorship, and years of specific experience. If/When I choose to consult with lawyers about the events described in the paragraph above, there might be a settlement if my speculations of liability are correct (or just to silence me on the sexual misconduct and rapes I do know of). If (again, speculative) that doesn’t happen and we continue into a discovery process, I’m curious as to what could be uncovered.” (Emphasis in original.)
I don’t doubt that the author cares about preventing sexual assault, and mitigating the harms that come from it. They do also seem to care about something that requires dropping dark hints of potential legal remedies they might pursue, with scary-sounding numbers and mentions of venue-shopping attached to them.
Hello Robert. I suggest you might read other comments I’ve left. I had provided information for years to EA, and I could not continue doing so without pay. I’ve mentioned in the comments that I have no desire to work with CEA after the events I speak of. Specifically, I felt that CEA was using information obtained through me in ways that were putting me at risk of liability. I added the piece about defamation laws in the UK versus US because CEA using information they obtained through me puts them at even greater risk than it does me, and I’d like to them to stop doing that—I hope you would as well, if you care about the movement. I asked to work with them so I could share information in ways that (1) reduced the legal risk to me personally, and (2) helped survivors/increased reporting. CEA declined, and wrote a piece I believe is defamatory. hope CEA does chose to work with experienced investigators for the investigation they are conducting, and lawyers instead of handling it in house. This is also why I’d like to warn of the risks taken.
Additionally, earlier in the piece—I say “tech, EA (Effective Altruists), rationalists, cybersecurity/hackers, crypto/blockchain, Burning Man camps, secret parties, and coliving houses”. Later in the piece and in this forum, I’ve clarified the number of cases I feel—without a full legal investigation, which could change this—how many cases put CEA/other org at legal risk. You are correct that I’m not the person to do this, but I hope CEA/another org chooses to work with the appropriate professionals to find out how / what the risks I speak of are
I’ve added the caveats because I do have a legal degree (and I 100% know this will be downvoted, because every time I’ve brought that up, it gets downvoted). For legal reasons, I add disclaimers. I can understand how that comes across as wishy-washy to a lay person, and when I was writing my piece, I knew it was likely someone would write a post such as yours. However, at the end of the day, I felt I’d rather protect myself legally and that it was important for me to speak my experiences and the knowledge I’ve gathered. I can’t emphasis this strongly enough to the orgs within the movement: please, please protect yourselves.
I’d also prefer NOT to do the legal thing and hope that warnings of those options might spur action and communication, but whenever I do have contact with the movement and/or people from the orgs, my motives are called into question in unfavorable ways, rather than curiosity about why I might say some of the things I say. You ask people to form their own opinions, and then launch into a lengthy, persuasive piece about your opinions, and throw out accusations and discredit rather than asking questions.
It’s—to me—especially sad that no one has expressed interest in finding out about the “30 cases”, nor expressed sadness that so many assaults happened.
Further, I understand the way I speak/write is quite different from that of most EAs, but perhaps some outside perspectives and voices can help you. I’d like fo your movement to stop doing things that might not be legal, and I had hoped that point would come across, but judging from your post and the upvotes, that doesn’t work. I understand that I’m saying isn’t pleasant and is quite difficult to hear, and so, it’s likely that your movement reacts with defensiveness and tries to discredit me. And I understand that the language I use, even when I try to frame it gently, isn’t the way EAs speak. I am, however, trained in formal logic and rhetoric, so I don’t speak illogically—though I find it too time consuming and unnatural to reframe my writing in EA friendly ways.
Small correct—I did not speak to CEA in July 2022 - I spoke to them in August 2022. And yes, I didn’t do this full time until recently and so my website also dates to that time—you can also find out my name and look me up on LinkedIn if you’d like more information about me/my background. And—I do have private communications that show longer work around this issue.
I think people should take a step back and take a bird’s-eye view of the situation:
The author persistently conflates multiple communities: “tech, EA (Effective Altruists), rationalists, cybersecurity/hackers, crypto/blockchain, Burning Man camps, secret parties, and coliving houses”. In the Bay Area, “tech” is literally a double-digit percentage of the population.
The first archived snapshot of the website of the author’s consultancy (“working with survivors, communities, institutions, and workplaces to prevent and heal from sexual harassment and sexual assault”) was recorded in August 2022.
According to the CEA Community Health team: “The author emailed the Community Health team about 7 months ago, when she shared some information about interpersonal harm; someone else previously forwarded us some anonymous information that she may have compiled. Before about 7 months ago, we hadn’t been in contact with her.”
This would have been late July 2022.
From the same comment by the CEA Community Health team: “We have emailed the author to tell her we will not be contracting her services.”
Implied: the author attempted to sell her professional services to CEA.
The author, in the linked piece: “To be clear, I’m not advocating bans of the accused or accusers—I am advocating for communities to do more, for thorough investigations by trained/experienced professionals, and for accountability if an accusation is found credible. Untrained mediators and community representatives/liaisons who are only brought on for their popularity and/or nepotistic ties to the community, without thought to expertise, experience, or qualifications, such as the one in the story linked above (though there are others), often end up causing the survivors greater trauma.” (Emphasis mine.)
The author: “In February 2023, I calculated that I personally knew of/dealt with thirty different incidents in which there was a non-trivial chance the Centre for Effective Altruism or another organization(s) within the EA ecosystem could potentially be legally liable in a civil suit for sexual assault, or defamation/libel/slander for their role/action (note: I haven’t added the stories I’ve received post-February to this tally, nor do I know if counting incidents an accurate measure (eg, accused versus accusers) also I’ve gotten several stories since that time; nor is this legal advice and to get a more accurate assessment, I’d want to present the info to a legal team specializing in these matters). Each could cost hundreds of thousands and years to defend, even if they aren’t found liable. Of course, without discovery, investigation, and without consulting legal counsel, this is a guess/speculative, and I can’t say whether they’d be liable or rise to the level of a civil suit—not with certainty without formal legal advice and full investigations.” (Emphasis in original.)
The author: “In response to my speculation, the community health team denied they knew of my work prior to August 2022, and that it was not connected to EA. Three white community health team members have strongly insinuated that I’ve lied and treated me – an Asian-American – in much the gaslighting, silencing way that survivors reporting rape fear being treated. Many of the women who have publicly spoken up about sexual misconduct in EA are of Asian descent. As I stated in the previous paragraph, I haven’t yet consulted with lawyers, but I personally believe this is defamatory. Additionally, the Centre and Effective Ventures Foundation are in headquartered in a jurisdiction that is much more harsh on defamation than the one I’m in.” (Emphasis in original.)
The author: “Unlike most of these mediators and liaisons, I have training/formal education, mentorship, and years of specific experience. If/When I choose to consult with lawyers about the events described in the paragraph above, there might be a settlement if my speculations of liability are correct (or just to silence me on the sexual misconduct and rapes I do know of). If (again, speculative) that doesn’t happen and we continue into a discovery process, I’m curious as to what could be uncovered.” (Emphasis in original.)
I don’t doubt that the author cares about preventing sexual assault, and mitigating the harms that come from it. They do also seem to care about something that requires dropping dark hints of potential legal remedies they might pursue, with scary-sounding numbers and mentions of venue-shopping attached to them.
Hello Robert. I suggest you might read other comments I’ve left. I had provided information for years to EA, and I could not continue doing so without pay. I’ve mentioned in the comments that I have no desire to work with CEA after the events I speak of. Specifically, I felt that CEA was using information obtained through me in ways that were putting me at risk of liability. I added the piece about defamation laws in the UK versus US because CEA using information they obtained through me puts them at even greater risk than it does me, and I’d like to them to stop doing that—I hope you would as well, if you care about the movement. I asked to work with them so I could share information in ways that (1) reduced the legal risk to me personally, and (2) helped survivors/increased reporting. CEA declined, and wrote a piece I believe is defamatory. hope CEA does chose to work with experienced investigators for the investigation they are conducting, and lawyers instead of handling it in house. This is also why I’d like to warn of the risks taken.
Additionally, earlier in the piece—I say “tech, EA (Effective Altruists), rationalists, cybersecurity/hackers, crypto/blockchain, Burning Man camps, secret parties, and coliving houses”. Later in the piece and in this forum, I’ve clarified the number of cases I feel—without a full legal investigation, which could change this—how many cases put CEA/other org at legal risk. You are correct that I’m not the person to do this, but I hope CEA/another org chooses to work with the appropriate professionals to find out how / what the risks I speak of are
I’ve added the caveats because I do have a legal degree (and I 100% know this will be downvoted, because every time I’ve brought that up, it gets downvoted). For legal reasons, I add disclaimers. I can understand how that comes across as wishy-washy to a lay person, and when I was writing my piece, I knew it was likely someone would write a post such as yours. However, at the end of the day, I felt I’d rather protect myself legally and that it was important for me to speak my experiences and the knowledge I’ve gathered. I can’t emphasis this strongly enough to the orgs within the movement: please, please protect yourselves.
I’d also prefer NOT to do the legal thing and hope that warnings of those options might spur action and communication, but whenever I do have contact with the movement and/or people from the orgs, my motives are called into question in unfavorable ways, rather than curiosity about why I might say some of the things I say. You ask people to form their own opinions, and then launch into a lengthy, persuasive piece about your opinions, and throw out accusations and discredit rather than asking questions.
It’s—to me—especially sad that no one has expressed interest in finding out about the “30 cases”, nor expressed sadness that so many assaults happened.
Further, I understand the way I speak/write is quite different from that of most EAs, but perhaps some outside perspectives and voices can help you. I’d like fo your movement to stop doing things that might not be legal, and I had hoped that point would come across, but judging from your post and the upvotes, that doesn’t work. I understand that I’m saying isn’t pleasant and is quite difficult to hear, and so, it’s likely that your movement reacts with defensiveness and tries to discredit me. And I understand that the language I use, even when I try to frame it gently, isn’t the way EAs speak. I am, however, trained in formal logic and rhetoric, so I don’t speak illogically—though I find it too time consuming and unnatural to reframe my writing in EA friendly ways.
Small correct—I did not speak to CEA in July 2022 - I spoke to them in August 2022. And yes, I didn’t do this full time until recently and so my website also dates to that time—you can also find out my name and look me up on LinkedIn if you’d like more information about me/my background. And—I do have private communications that show longer work around this issue.