I think that earning-to-give and donating to AMF and GiveDirectly is very cool. (I did this full-time for a while, and now advise a private foundation whose funders also do this full-time.)
In fact, I can’t think of any people I’ve met within EA who don’t think doing this is very cool, and I can only think of a few who would clearly “rank” ETG below other types of work in terms of “coolness”. The most common reaction I’ve heard to people who discussed their choice to pursue ETG or direct work outside of EA (for example, studying public health with an eye toward biosecurity or neglected tropical diseases) hasn’t been “okay, good for you, too bad you don’t work at an EA org”. It’s been “that’s really wonderful, congratulations!”
(I do know that some people have heard something closer to the first reaction, which is disappointing—and part of the reason I’m so forcefully expressing my beliefs here.)
Note that “coolness” is not the same as “impact”; personally, I think it’s likely that working at GiveWell is probably higher-impact than earning-to-give and donating $10,000/year. But that doesn’t mean that working at GiveWell is cooler. In both cases, someone is devoting their life to helping others in a way that aligns with my core values in life.
The fact that the GiveWell person passed an extra work trial (assuming they both applied to GiveWell—maybe they didn’t, and the ETG person just really likes their job!) is trivial compared to the overarching fact of “holy cow, you’re both using your lives to improve other lives, it doesn’t get much cooler than that”.
I’d feel exactly the same way about someone whose life didn’t lead them down the “fancy four-year degree” plan and who donates $1000/year because that’s really all they can spare. When it comes to my internal view of “coolness”, it’s actually the thought that counts, as long as the thought involves carefully considering the best ways to use one’s resources.
The most common reaction I’ve heard to people who discussed their choice to pursue ETG or direct work outside of EA (for example, studying public health with an eye toward biosecurity or neglected tropical diseases) hasn’t been “okay, good for you, too bad you don’t work at an EA org”. It’s been “that’s really wonderful, congratulations!”
I’m really glad that’s been your experience and I acknowledge that maybe my experience isn’t typical.
My experience has been more pessimistic. Honestly, I usually encounter conversations that feel more like this:
Bob: “Hi, I can donate $10,000 a year to the EA movement. GiveWell says that could save 4-5 lives a year, and it’s quite possible we could even find better giving opportunities than GiveWell top charities. This is super exciting!”
Alice: “Pff, $10K/yr isn’t really that much. We don’t need that. You should do direct work instead.”
Bob: “Ok, how about I research biosecurity?”
Alice: “Nah, you’d probably mess that up. We should just let FHI handle that. We can’t talk about this further because of infohazards.”
...Obviously this is dramatized for effect, but I’ve never seen a community so excited to turn away money.
In addition to what Peter describes, if we do a simple content analysis of forum threads or blog posts in the last 3 or so years, ETG feels like it’s become invisible. Long term EAs like you and me most likely do still think it’s cool because when we became EAs it was a huge part of it and probably a big part of what drew us in (in my case, certainly—I became an EA the year GWWC was launched). But that doesn’t mean that this is the subtext that newer EAs are getting. I feel like the opposite is true, and I find that deeply concerning.
I think that earning-to-give and donating to AMF and GiveDirectly is very cool. (I did this full-time for a while, and now advise a private foundation whose funders also do this full-time.)
In fact, I can’t think of any people I’ve met within EA who don’t think doing this is very cool, and I can only think of a few who would clearly “rank” ETG below other types of work in terms of “coolness”. The most common reaction I’ve heard to people who discussed their choice to pursue ETG or direct work outside of EA (for example, studying public health with an eye toward biosecurity or neglected tropical diseases) hasn’t been “okay, good for you, too bad you don’t work at an EA org”. It’s been “that’s really wonderful, congratulations!”
(I do know that some people have heard something closer to the first reaction, which is disappointing—and part of the reason I’m so forcefully expressing my beliefs here.)
Note that “coolness” is not the same as “impact”; personally, I think it’s likely that working at GiveWell is probably higher-impact than earning-to-give and donating $10,000/year. But that doesn’t mean that working at GiveWell is cooler. In both cases, someone is devoting their life to helping others in a way that aligns with my core values in life.
The fact that the GiveWell person passed an extra work trial (assuming they both applied to GiveWell—maybe they didn’t, and the ETG person just really likes their job!) is trivial compared to the overarching fact of “holy cow, you’re both using your lives to improve other lives, it doesn’t get much cooler than that”.
I’d feel exactly the same way about someone whose life didn’t lead them down the “fancy four-year degree” plan and who donates $1000/year because that’s really all they can spare. When it comes to my internal view of “coolness”, it’s actually the thought that counts, as long as the thought involves carefully considering the best ways to use one’s resources.
I’m really glad that’s been your experience and I acknowledge that maybe my experience isn’t typical.
My experience has been more pessimistic. Honestly, I usually encounter conversations that feel more like this:
Bob: “Hi, I can donate $10,000 a year to the EA movement. GiveWell says that could save 4-5 lives a year, and it’s quite possible we could even find better giving opportunities than GiveWell top charities. This is super exciting!”
Alice: “Pff, $10K/yr isn’t really that much. We don’t need that. You should do direct work instead.”
Bob: “Ok, how about I research biosecurity?”
Alice: “Nah, you’d probably mess that up. We should just let FHI handle that. We can’t talk about this further because of infohazards.”
...Obviously this is dramatized for effect, but I’ve never seen a community so excited to turn away money.
In addition to what Peter describes, if we do a simple content analysis of forum threads or blog posts in the last 3 or so years, ETG feels like it’s become invisible. Long term EAs like you and me most likely do still think it’s cool because when we became EAs it was a huge part of it and probably a big part of what drew us in (in my case, certainly—I became an EA the year GWWC was launched). But that doesn’t mean that this is the subtext that newer EAs are getting. I feel like the opposite is true, and I find that deeply concerning.