Lightcone time (Although even if it wasn’t public, someone would have to put in this kind of time counterfactually anyway)
Maybe this is the crux? I think investigative time for public vs private accountability is extremely asymmetric.
I also expect public investigations/exposes to be more costly to a) bystanders and b) victims (in cases where there are clear identifiable victims[1]). Less importantly, misunderstandings are harder to retract in ways that make both sides save “face.”
I think there are some cases where airing out the problems are cathartic or otherwise beneficial to victims, but I expect those to be the minority. Most of the time reliving past cases of harm has a high chance of being a traumatic experience, or at minimum highly unpleasant.
I agree with you that it could be asymmetrical, but its not the crux for me.
Personally in this case I would weight “time spent on the investigation” as a pretty low downside/upside compared to many of the other positive/negatives I listed, but this is subjective and/or hard to measure.
I agree with it taking a lot of time (take your 500 hours).
I just don’t weight one person spending 500 hours as highly (although very important, as its 3 monthish work) as other potential positives/negatives. I don’t think its the crux for me of whether a public investigation is net positive/negative. I think its one factor but not necessarily the most important.
Factors I would potentially rate as more important in the discussion of whether this public investigation is worth it or not.
- Potential positives for multiple EA orgs improving practices and reducing harm in future. - Potential negatives for the org Nonlinear in question, their work and the ramifications for the people in it.
Your comparison is too local. Given the shortage of people with the capacity and ability to do investigations, if your standard becomes one of public investigation-by-default, the difference in practice isn’t Z public investigations for cases that look as bad ex anteas Nonlinear vs Z private investigations, it’s 1 public investigation for cases that look as bad ex ante as Nonlinear and 0 other investigations, vs Z private investigations.
The benefits of public investigations are visible whereas the opportunity cost of people not doing private investigations is invisible.
Maybe this is the crux? I think investigative time for public vs private accountability is extremely asymmetric.
I also expect public investigations/exposes to be more costly to a) bystanders and b) victims (in cases where there are clear identifiable victims[1]). Less importantly, misunderstandings are harder to retract in ways that make both sides save “face.”
I think there are some cases where airing out the problems are cathartic or otherwise beneficial to victims, but I expect those to be the minority. Most of the time reliving past cases of harm has a high chance of being a traumatic experience, or at minimum highly unpleasant.
I agree with you that it could be asymmetrical, but its not the crux for me.
Personally in this case I would weight “time spent on the investigation” as a pretty low downside/upside compared to many of the other positive/negatives I listed, but this is subjective and/or hard to measure.
I’m sorry, this position just seems baffling tbh. How many public investigations have you done?
I agree with it taking a lot of time (take your 500 hours).
I just don’t weight one person spending 500 hours as highly (although very important, as its 3 monthish work) as other potential positives/negatives. I don’t think its the crux for me of whether a public investigation is net positive/negative. I think its one factor but not necessarily the most important.
Factors I would potentially rate as more important in the discussion of whether this public investigation is worth it or not.
- Potential positives for multiple EA orgs improving practices and reducing harm in future.
- Potential negatives for the org Nonlinear in question, their work and the ramifications for the people in it.
Your comparison is too local. Given the shortage of people with the capacity and ability to do investigations, if your standard becomes one of public investigation-by-default, the difference in practice isn’t Z public investigations for cases that look as bad ex ante as Nonlinear vs Z private investigations, it’s 1 public investigation for cases that look as bad ex ante as Nonlinear and 0 other investigations, vs Z private investigations.
The benefits of public investigations are visible whereas the opportunity cost of people not doing private investigations is invisible.
EDITED: I think it would have been useful to write this in the original comment.
Can you clarify?
Oops, I meant “this”, but autocorrect got me