In my view, if GWWC wants to be a community organization, it should be controlled by the community.
This seems like a very one-size-fits-all model of what a community is. GWWC is a community of people who commit to effective giving, that is what brings us together. I don’t particularly think that the members of GWWC being involved in it’s governance would make it more of a community.
It is certainly important for there to be some oversight to prevent e.g. accidentally hiring a CEO who takes things off the rails, but I for one am quite happy with the existing board and don’t see that it would be significantly improved by more “community involvement”.
Yeah, I contend that this is only my personal view, and others might be fine with it.
From my perspective, GWWC is a marketing project by EVF that builds and shapes a community centered on donating to EA causes (including EVF itself).
Structurally, this is the same type of user community that many for-profit companies cultivate. I do not join such communities, because I refuse to be a marketing vehicle.
More community involvement would lead to decisions that primarily represent the community.
This comment makes me feel like we’re living on different planets.
GWWC precedes EVF, it is not a “project by EVF”, it had its own existence beforehand and has its own leadership and direction. If anything, EVF exists to serve GWWC.
GWWC is not a marketing project, that doesn’t even make sense to me. EVF doesn’t have a product that it’s selling to people. The purpose of GWWC is exactly what it says on the tin: getting people to pledge to give more and more effectively. In what way is this marketing for EVF?
In what way do the decisions not currently represent the community? Indeed, all the people who work for GWWC are people who are committed to effective giving, i.e. are members of the community. Sure, if it was run by some unrelated people who had no interest in what we’re doing I’d be worried but… it isn’t?
This is exactly why I wrote this post. GWWC feels like an innocent community. But GWWC itself states at the bottom of their website that they are “a project of EVF”. This is fact, at least in a legal sense.
GWWC is a marketing project, and here’s why: GWWC tries to get people to donate more. They try to influence people’s spending so more of it goes to effective causes. To me, that’s the definition of marketing. The product they are selling is a Donation to EA Funds. It’s still marketing if a charity does it.
I don’t think the GWWC community is unhappy with current leadership, I also think they’re doing a fine job. After all, GWWC pledgees self-selected into it. My point is, that only works because the right people happen to be in power, and not because governance structures ensure this. The board of EVF could, for example, simply decide tomorrow, without involving the community, that GWWC should exclusively facilitate donations to playpumps.
I think you’re spot on on one disagreement. Let’s phrase it even more explicitly: You trust EVF to always make the right calls, even in 10 years from now. I don’t.
I believe I have good reasons to assume that even if they have good intentions, they might not act in the community’s favor.
Let’s phrase it even more explicitly: You trust EVF to always make the right calls, even in 10 years from now.
The quote above (emphasis mine) reads like a strawman; I don’t think Michael would say that they always make the right call. My personal view is that individuals steering GWWC will mostly make the right decisions and downside risks are small enough not to warrant costly governance interventions.
I believe I have good reasons to assume that even if they have good intentions, they might not act in the community’s favor.
To be clear, the point isn’t to act in the community’s favor, the point is acting in a way that benefits the good. (It’s possible this is what you actually mean and I’m misunderstanding).
This seems like a very one-size-fits-all model of what a community is. GWWC is a community of people who commit to effective giving, that is what brings us together. I don’t particularly think that the members of GWWC being involved in it’s governance would make it more of a community.
It is certainly important for there to be some oversight to prevent e.g. accidentally hiring a CEO who takes things off the rails, but I for one am quite happy with the existing board and don’t see that it would be significantly improved by more “community involvement”.
Yeah, I contend that this is only my personal view, and others might be fine with it. From my perspective, GWWC is a marketing project by EVF that builds and shapes a community centered on donating to EA causes (including EVF itself).
Structurally, this is the same type of user community that many for-profit companies cultivate. I do not join such communities, because I refuse to be a marketing vehicle.
More community involvement would lead to decisions that primarily represent the community.
This comment makes me feel like we’re living on different planets.
GWWC precedes EVF, it is not a “project by EVF”, it had its own existence beforehand and has its own leadership and direction. If anything, EVF exists to serve GWWC.
GWWC is not a marketing project, that doesn’t even make sense to me. EVF doesn’t have a product that it’s selling to people. The purpose of GWWC is exactly what it says on the tin: getting people to pledge to give more and more effectively. In what way is this marketing for EVF?
In what way do the decisions not currently represent the community? Indeed, all the people who work for GWWC are people who are committed to effective giving, i.e. are members of the community. Sure, if it was run by some unrelated people who had no interest in what we’re doing I’d be worried but… it isn’t?
This is exactly why I wrote this post. GWWC feels like an innocent community. But GWWC itself states at the bottom of their website that they are “a project of EVF”. This is fact, at least in a legal sense.
GWWC is a marketing project, and here’s why: GWWC tries to get people to donate more. They try to influence people’s spending so more of it goes to effective causes. To me, that’s the definition of marketing. The product they are selling is a Donation to EA Funds. It’s still marketing if a charity does it.
I don’t think the GWWC community is unhappy with current leadership, I also think they’re doing a fine job. After all, GWWC pledgees self-selected into it. My point is, that only works because the right people happen to be in power, and not because governance structures ensure this. The board of EVF could, for example, simply decide tomorrow, without involving the community, that GWWC should exclusively facilitate donations to playpumps.
Perhaps our real disagreement is whether or not we are in a high-trust regime or not: https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/vXq4ADWzBnwR2nyqE/keep-ea-high-trust
I think we clearly are, and so this kind of attitude is costly and unnecessary.
I think you’re spot on on one disagreement. Let’s phrase it even more explicitly: You trust EVF to always make the right calls, even in 10 years from now. I don’t.
I believe I have good reasons to assume that even if they have good intentions, they might not act in the community’s favor.
The quote above (emphasis mine) reads like a strawman; I don’t think Michael would say that they always make the right call. My personal view is that individuals steering GWWC will mostly make the right decisions and downside risks are small enough not to warrant costly governance interventions.
To be clear, the point isn’t to act in the community’s favor, the point is acting in a way that benefits the good. (It’s possible this is what you actually mean and I’m misunderstanding).