Accuracy: I don’t think the core problem actually the people who’s lives we are saving, its that they then eat meat and cause suffering. I think its important to separate the people from the core problem as this better helps us consider possible solutions
The main takeaway of the ‘meat eater problem’ (sorry!) is to reassess the cost-effectiveness of saving human lives, not necessarily to argue that we should focus on reducing animal consumption in lower-income countries. While reducing animal consumption is important, that’s not typically the central takeaway from this specific ‘problem’.
In this sense, the saving lives aspect is more central to the problem than the meat consumption aspect, though both are pivotal. So, in a purely logical sense, the term ‘meat eater problem’ might actually be more accurate.
Depends if there’s a better option. I agree with MichaelStJules when he says “’Meat eating problem’ seems likely to be understood too generally as the problem of animal consumption.” The other proposed options don’t seem that great to me because they seem to abstract too far away from the issue of saving lives which is at the core of the problem.
It’s worth noting there is a cost to changing the name of something. You’ll then have the exact same thing referred to by different names in different places which can lead to confusion. Also it’s very hard to get a whole community to change the way they refer to something that has been around for a while.
With regards to the “persuasion” point—I think the issue is that the problem we are talking about is inherently uncomfortable. We’re talking about how saving human lives may not be as good as we think it is because humans cause suffering to animals. This is naturally going to be hard for a lot of people to swallow the second you explain it to them, and I don’t think putting a nicer name on it is going to change that.
With regard to fairness…this is my personal view but this doesn’t bother me much. I don’t see evidence of individuals in lower income countries caring about the language we use on the EA Forum which is what would ultimately influence me on this point.
I’m aware I’m in the extreme minority here and I might be wrong. I fully expect to get further downvotes but if people disagree I would welcome pushback in the form of replies.
The main takeaway of the ‘meat eater problem’ (sorry!) is to reassess the cost-effectiveness of saving human lives, not necessarily to argue that we should focus on reducing animal consumption in lower-income countries. While reducing animal consumption is important, that’s not typically the central takeaway from this specific ‘problem’.
In this sense, the saving lives aspect is more central to the problem than the meat consumption aspect, though both are pivotal. So, in a purely logical sense, the term ‘meat eater problem’ might actually be more accurate.
You can argue that, but even then can points 2 and 3 not still make it better to use a different name?
Depends if there’s a better option. I agree with MichaelStJules when he says “’Meat eating problem’ seems likely to be understood too generally as the problem of animal consumption.” The other proposed options don’t seem that great to me because they seem to abstract too far away from the issue of saving lives which is at the core of the problem.
It’s worth noting there is a cost to changing the name of something. You’ll then have the exact same thing referred to by different names in different places which can lead to confusion. Also it’s very hard to get a whole community to change the way they refer to something that has been around for a while.
With regards to the “persuasion” point—I think the issue is that the problem we are talking about is inherently uncomfortable. We’re talking about how saving human lives may not be as good as we think it is because humans cause suffering to animals. This is naturally going to be hard for a lot of people to swallow the second you explain it to them, and I don’t think putting a nicer name on it is going to change that.
With regard to fairness…this is my personal view but this doesn’t bother me much. I don’t see evidence of individuals in lower income countries caring about the language we use on the EA Forum which is what would ultimately influence me on this point.
I’m aware I’m in the extreme minority here and I might be wrong. I fully expect to get further downvotes but if people disagree I would welcome pushback in the form of replies.