Just flagging this for context of readers, I think Habryka’s position/reading makes more sense if you view it in the context of an ongoing Cold War between Good Ventures and Lightcone.[1]
Dustin and Oli went back and forth in the comments above, some particularly revealing comments from Dustin are here and here, which even if are an attempt at gallows humour, to me also show a real rift.
To Habryka’s credit, it’s much easier to see what the ‘Lightcone Ecosystem’ thinks of OpenPhil!
I think the reason why is mostly given here by MichaelDickens on LW, Habryka adds some more concerns in the comments. My sense is that the LW commentariat is turning increasingly against OP but that’s just a vibe I have when skim-reading.
Some of it also appears to be for reasons to do with the Lightcone-aversion-to-”deception”-broadly-defined, which one can see from the Habryka’s reasoning in this post or replying here to Luke Muehlhauser. This philosophy doesn’t seem to explained in one place, I’ve only gleaned what I can from various posts/comments so if someone does have a clearer example then feel free to point me in that direction.
This great comment during the Nonlinear saga I think helps make a lot of Lightcone v OP discourse make sense.
I was nervous about writing this because I don’t want to start a massive flame war, but I think it’s helpful for the EA Community to be aware that two powerful forces in it/adjacent to it[2] are essentially in a period of conflict. When you see comments from either side that seem to be more aggressive/hostile than you otherwise might think warranted, this may make the behaviour make more sense.
Note: I don’t personally know any of the people involved, and live half a world away, so expect it to be very inaccurate. Still, this ‘frame’ has helped me to try to grasp what I see as behaviours and attitudes which otherwise seem hard to explain to me, as an outsider to the ‘EA/LW in the Bay’ scene.
To my understanding, the Lightcone position on EA is that it ‘should be disavowed and dismantled’ but there’s no denying the Lightcone is closer to EA than ~most all other organisations in some sense
Just flagging this for context of readers, I think Habryka’s position/reading makes more sense if you view it in the context of an ongoing Cold War between Good Ventures and Lightcone.[1]
Some evidence on the GV side:
The change of funding priorities from Good Ventures seems to include stopping any funding for Lightcone.
Dustin seems to associate the decoupling norms of Lightcone with supporting actors and beliefs that he wants to have nothing to do with.
Dustin and Oli went back and forth in the comments above, some particularly revealing comments from Dustin are here and here, which even if are an attempt at gallows humour, to me also show a real rift.
To Habryka’s credit, it’s much easier to see what the ‘Lightcone Ecosystem’ thinks of OpenPhil!
He thinks that the actions of GV/OP were and currently are overall bad for the world.
I think the reason why is mostly given here by MichaelDickens on LW, Habryka adds some more concerns in the comments. My sense is that the LW commentariat is turning increasingly against OP but that’s just a vibe I have when skim-reading.
Some of it also appears to be for reasons to do with the Lightcone-aversion-to-”deception”-broadly-defined, which one can see from the Habryka’s reasoning in this post or replying here to Luke Muehlhauser. This philosophy doesn’t seem to explained in one place, I’ve only gleaned what I can from various posts/comments so if someone does have a clearer example then feel free to point me in that direction.
This great comment during the Nonlinear saga I think helps make a lot of Lightcone v OP discourse make sense.
I was nervous about writing this because I don’t want to start a massive flame war, but I think it’s helpful for the EA Community to be aware that two powerful forces in it/adjacent to it[2] are essentially in a period of conflict. When you see comments from either side that seem to be more aggressive/hostile than you otherwise might think warranted, this may make the behaviour make more sense.
Note: I don’t personally know any of the people involved, and live half a world away, so expect it to be very inaccurate. Still, this ‘frame’ has helped me to try to grasp what I see as behaviours and attitudes which otherwise seem hard to explain to me, as an outsider to the ‘EA/LW in the Bay’ scene.
To my understanding, the Lightcone position on EA is that it ‘should be disavowed and dismantled’ but there’s no denying the Lightcone is closer to EA than ~most all other organisations in some sense