I really appreciated this post! Thanks for writing it. I also really appreciated the original post and am a bit bummed it got buried. I also want to note that I find it odd that post got downvoted (possibly for being explicitly partisan?) vs posts like this, which don’t explicitly claim to be partisan / engaging in politics but I think are actually extremely political.
One thought, slightly unrelated to the question of whether or not there are good EA grounds for supporting / opposing political candidates (and I think it’s highly likely that there are):
Effective altruism has long had a culture of shying away from explicit engagement in partisan politics
I think one really useful and accurate idea from the social justice community is the idea that you can’t be neutral on many political issues. This seems like it ought to be even more compelling from a consequentialist perspective as well, as inaction on certain political opportunities (not exclusively, but definitely including removing Trump from office / Joe Biden winning the 2020 election in the US) might contribute directly to the worse outcome. The status quo is already a manifestation of political positions, so if you’re not engaging in changing the status quo, you are taking whatever political positions built it.
For example, I live in Pennsylvania, and theoretically my vote might matter in the US presidential election this year. I can vote for Joe Biden, not vote (or vote for a third party), or vote for Donald Trump. I think it seems clear that the downside risk from Trump winning is very high compared to Joe Biden, and given that Trump will win if Joe Biden doesn’t, there is almost as much risk in not voting. I think that I pretty clearly on (some kind of rough near-termist) consequentialist grounds should vote for Joe Biden, and probably should try to get as many people as possible to do the same.
I think there are probably lots of good reasons to think that dollars directed by the EA community shouldn’t go to political candidates as a general rule of thumb (though there are probably really good giving opportunities at times), but broadly, as a community interested in ethics, it seems like we are inherently taking fairly strong political positions, but then not really willing to discuss them or make them explicit .
This was a bit of a ramble because my thoughts aren’t well-formed, but I think it is pretty likely that attempting to be “neutral” on political issues is close to being as bad as taking the political position that will lead to the worse outcome, or something along those lines.
First, I want to say I’m glad you’re voting for Joe and I hope you will tell all your Pennsylvanian friends to do the same. Nevertheless I think there are a few key considerations around EA getting involved in politics on a movement level that your comment misses.
I also want to note that I find it odd that post got downvoted (possibly for being explicitly partisan?) vs posts like this, which don’t explicitly claim to be partisan / engaging in politics but I think are actually extremely political.
That post relates to a case where politics got itself involved in EA. The question we’re discussing here is whether EA should get itself involved in politics. I do think it may be reasonable to treat these cases differently, because if we’re not allowed to say anything when politics gets itself involved in EA, that leaves us vulnerable to being hijacked by external political actors. (As an absurd example, imagine it came out that the CEO if Givewell was a believer in QAnon and was directing Givewell donor funds in their direction. A commitment to being apolitical which prohibited any discussion of this seems rather self-defeating.)
I think one really useful and accurate idea from the social justice community is the idea that you can’t be neutral on many political issues.
Not saying this is how you deployed it, but I often see others deploy this slogan in a way that seems very antithetical to EA.
What if I choose to focus my time and attention on issues I consider higher-impact? (“I’m soliciting donations to cure rare diseases in cute puppies. You can’t be neutral on this issue!”)
What if I spent some time researching the issue and I think the evidence around it is very mixed/low-quality, or the costs and benefits roughly balance out? Or I think the issue is too much of an epistemic minefield to know what evidence is reliable? (“The CIA did X, and then they did Y and Z to cover their tracks.”)
What if my position is too complex / nuanced / unusual to be easily summarized as for or against? (“Not left, not right, forward.”)
When someone says “you can’t be neutral”, it sounds to me like “please turn off your brain”. Neutrality is the state I’m in when I’m trying to weigh evidence and evaluate arguments related to an issue. Telling me I can’t be neutral is telling me to abrogate the thought process I use to come to a thoughtful and well-informed position.
This “you can’t be neutral” mindset has the potential to destroy a lot of the value of the EA movement, in my opinion.
I think it is pretty likely that attempting to be “neutral” on political issues is close to being as bad as taking the political position that will lead to the worse outcome, or something along those lines.
I just want to quickly address this. What matters in Pennsylvania is the difference between Trump’s total and Biden’s total. Adding 1 to Trump’s total and subtracting 1 from Biden’s total have an equivalent magnitude of effect on the final result. Not voting is exactly halfway between voting for Trump and voting for Biden in terms of the effect it has. If people actually start thinking that “since I’m not voting for Biden, I might as well vote for Trump”, Trump will be very happy.
I think similar logic applies to other political acts. It often seems true that the result is based roughly on summing up the actions of various involved partisans. Generally speaking, I think people who tell you “neutrality is just as bad” are trying to browbeat you into taking their position, and their statement is not descriptively accurate.
(I might as well add that I suspect the “with us or against us” sentiment on the left contributes to Trump’s popularity. For all its faults, Trump’s movement is more ideologically inclusive, in my view.)
I really appreciated this post! Thanks for writing it. I also really appreciated the original post and am a bit bummed it got buried. I also want to note that I find it odd that post got downvoted (possibly for being explicitly partisan?) vs posts like this, which don’t explicitly claim to be partisan / engaging in politics but I think are actually extremely political.
One thought, slightly unrelated to the question of whether or not there are good EA grounds for supporting / opposing political candidates (and I think it’s highly likely that there are):
I think one really useful and accurate idea from the social justice community is the idea that you can’t be neutral on many political issues. This seems like it ought to be even more compelling from a consequentialist perspective as well, as inaction on certain political opportunities (not exclusively, but definitely including removing Trump from office / Joe Biden winning the 2020 election in the US) might contribute directly to the worse outcome. The status quo is already a manifestation of political positions, so if you’re not engaging in changing the status quo, you are taking whatever political positions built it.
For example, I live in Pennsylvania, and theoretically my vote might matter in the US presidential election this year. I can vote for Joe Biden, not vote (or vote for a third party), or vote for Donald Trump. I think it seems clear that the downside risk from Trump winning is very high compared to Joe Biden, and given that Trump will win if Joe Biden doesn’t, there is almost as much risk in not voting. I think that I pretty clearly on (some kind of rough near-termist) consequentialist grounds should vote for Joe Biden, and probably should try to get as many people as possible to do the same.
I think there are probably lots of good reasons to think that dollars directed by the EA community shouldn’t go to political candidates as a general rule of thumb (though there are probably really good giving opportunities at times), but broadly, as a community interested in ethics, it seems like we are inherently taking fairly strong political positions, but then not really willing to discuss them or make them explicit .
This was a bit of a ramble because my thoughts aren’t well-formed, but I think it is pretty likely that attempting to be “neutral” on political issues is close to being as bad as taking the political position that will lead to the worse outcome, or something along those lines.
First, I want to say I’m glad you’re voting for Joe and I hope you will tell all your Pennsylvanian friends to do the same. Nevertheless I think there are a few key considerations around EA getting involved in politics on a movement level that your comment misses.
That post relates to a case where politics got itself involved in EA. The question we’re discussing here is whether EA should get itself involved in politics. I do think it may be reasonable to treat these cases differently, because if we’re not allowed to say anything when politics gets itself involved in EA, that leaves us vulnerable to being hijacked by external political actors. (As an absurd example, imagine it came out that the CEO if Givewell was a believer in QAnon and was directing Givewell donor funds in their direction. A commitment to being apolitical which prohibited any discussion of this seems rather self-defeating.)
Not saying this is how you deployed it, but I often see others deploy this slogan in a way that seems very antithetical to EA.
What if I choose to focus my time and attention on issues I consider higher-impact? (“I’m soliciting donations to cure rare diseases in cute puppies. You can’t be neutral on this issue!”)
What if I spent some time researching the issue and I think the evidence around it is very mixed/low-quality, or the costs and benefits roughly balance out? Or I think the issue is too much of an epistemic minefield to know what evidence is reliable? (“The CIA did X, and then they did Y and Z to cover their tracks.”)
What if my position is too complex / nuanced / unusual to be easily summarized as for or against? (“Not left, not right, forward.”)
When someone says “you can’t be neutral”, it sounds to me like “please turn off your brain”. Neutrality is the state I’m in when I’m trying to weigh evidence and evaluate arguments related to an issue. Telling me I can’t be neutral is telling me to abrogate the thought process I use to come to a thoughtful and well-informed position.
This “you can’t be neutral” mindset has the potential to destroy a lot of the value of the EA movement, in my opinion.
I just want to quickly address this. What matters in Pennsylvania is the difference between Trump’s total and Biden’s total. Adding 1 to Trump’s total and subtracting 1 from Biden’s total have an equivalent magnitude of effect on the final result. Not voting is exactly halfway between voting for Trump and voting for Biden in terms of the effect it has. If people actually start thinking that “since I’m not voting for Biden, I might as well vote for Trump”, Trump will be very happy.
I think similar logic applies to other political acts. It often seems true that the result is based roughly on summing up the actions of various involved partisans. Generally speaking, I think people who tell you “neutrality is just as bad” are trying to browbeat you into taking their position, and their statement is not descriptively accurate.
(I might as well add that I suspect the “with us or against us” sentiment on the left contributes to Trump’s popularity. For all its faults, Trump’s movement is more ideologically inclusive, in my view.)