I might not be tracking all the exact nuances, but I’d have thought that prestige is ~just legible influence aged a bit, in the same way that old money is just new money aged a bit. I model institutions like Oxford as trying to play the “long game” here.
The point I’m trying to make is that there are many ways you can be influential (including towards people that matter) and only some of them increase prestige. People can talk about your ideas without ever mentioning or knowing your name, you can be a polarising figure who a lot of influential people like but who it’s taboo to mention, and so on.
I also do think you originally meant (or conveyed) a broader meaning of influential—as you mention economic output and the dustbins of history, which I would consider to be about broad influence.
Interesting example! I don’t know much about Tate, but I understand him as a) only “influential” in a very ephemeral way, in the way that e.g. pro wrestlers are, and b) only influential among people who themselves aren’t influential.
It’s possible we aren’t using the word “influential” in the same way. E.g. implicit in my understanding of “influential” is something like “having influence on people who matter” whereas maybe you’re just defining it as “having influence on (many) people, period?”
Influence =/= prestige
I might not be tracking all the exact nuances, but I’d have thought that prestige is ~just legible influence aged a bit, in the same way that old money is just new money aged a bit. I model institutions like Oxford as trying to play the “long game” here.
The point I’m trying to make is that there are many ways you can be influential (including towards people that matter) and only some of them increase prestige. People can talk about your ideas without ever mentioning or knowing your name, you can be a polarising figure who a lot of influential people like but who it’s taboo to mention, and so on.
I also do think you originally meant (or conveyed) a broader meaning of influential—as you mention economic output and the dustbins of history, which I would consider to be about broad influence.
Andrew Tate is very influential, but entirely lacking in prestige.
Interesting example! I don’t know much about Tate, but I understand him as a) only “influential” in a very ephemeral way, in the way that e.g. pro wrestlers are, and b) only influential among people who themselves aren’t influential.
It’s possible we aren’t using the word “influential” in the same way. E.g. implicit in my understanding of “influential” is something like “having influence on people who matter” whereas maybe you’re just defining it as “having influence on (many) people, period?”