I agree that being too long and overwhelming is perhaps the main issue with it currently. Just checking you saw this paragraph, which might reassure you a bit:
Later, we hope to release a ‘just the key messages’ version that aims to quickly communicate the key concepts, without as much detail on why or how to apply them. We realise the current article is very long – it’s not aimed at new readers but rather at people who might want to spend days or more making a career plan. Longer-term, I could imagine it becoming a book with chapters for each stage above, which contain advice, real-life examples and exercises. (Added: we’ll also consider making a ‘tool’ version like we had in the 2017 career guide.)
Our top priority was ‘just to get everything written down’. After we’ve had more feedback to check the stages / advice / structure is at least not obviously wrong, the next priority will be making it more digestible, engaging and easier to use. This may take some time, though, since I think we need to give the key ideas cover sheet and problem profiles some more attention next.
Ah, I completely missed that paragraph. Thank you for pointing it out, and best of luck as you create more digestible versions!
After reading the paragraph, I have a few additional thoughts:
I like the idea of a “just the key messages” version that focuses on spreading the ideas rather than why/how to apply them. But I wonder if it’d be even more important to release a version that focuses on the application. My guess is that most EAs who follow 80k hours would benefit more from tools that help them apply these concepts than readings that explain the content to them. My confidence is low, though—I’m going off of some interactions with EA friends & some general theories of behavior change. What do you think about this assessment (that it’s more important to get EAs to apply these concepts in their lives than to explain the key concepts)?
A book seems like a great idea, though I also expect that it’d appeal to the “high-effort” crowd. The more I think about it, the more I think that I really hope some of these become https://www.clearerthinking.org modules :) (in addition to a tool version like the one in the 2017 guide).
I wonder if creating shorter versions might also help you get more feedback, as well as feedback from a different audience. Dismantling the guide into smaller chunks could be helpful at figuring out which parts are most helpful/clear (and perhaps which parts are most worth developing/refining further). Also, if the shorter tools attract a different crowd (i.e., those who aren’t as willing to spends days or more making a career plan), the feedback on the “low-effort” version might differ in meaningful ways from the feedback on the high-effort version.
I’m sure there are plenty of initiatives going on at 80k, and I have no idea where “creating new short modules/interactive tools for career planning” would rank on the list. Nonetheless, I think it’d be a valuable idea (potentially more valuable than long guides or “key points” materials that are more informational than applied), and I’d be excited to see/share them if you decide to pursue them.
I’m pretty tempted to break it up into standalone sections in the next version.
I agree the tools are worth doing at some point (and maybe breaking up into multiple tools). I guess you’re also aware of our ‘make a decision’ tool that’s in guided track?
I think I might be a bit more skeptical about tools though. They take a lot longer to make & edit, and some fraction of our core audience finds them a bit lame (though some love them). Personally, I’d prefer a google doc which I can easily customise, where I can see everything on one page, and easily share for feedback. And it seems like the youth might agree :p
Hi Akash,
Thank you for the thoughtful comments!
I agree that being too long and overwhelming is perhaps the main issue with it currently. Just checking you saw this paragraph, which might reassure you a bit:
Our top priority was ‘just to get everything written down’. After we’ve had more feedback to check the stages / advice / structure is at least not obviously wrong, the next priority will be making it more digestible, engaging and easier to use. This may take some time, though, since I think we need to give the key ideas cover sheet and problem profiles some more attention next.
Ah, I completely missed that paragraph. Thank you for pointing it out, and best of luck as you create more digestible versions!
After reading the paragraph, I have a few additional thoughts:
I like the idea of a “just the key messages” version that focuses on spreading the ideas rather than why/how to apply them. But I wonder if it’d be even more important to release a version that focuses on the application. My guess is that most EAs who follow 80k hours would benefit more from tools that help them apply these concepts than readings that explain the content to them. My confidence is low, though—I’m going off of some interactions with EA friends & some general theories of behavior change. What do you think about this assessment (that it’s more important to get EAs to apply these concepts in their lives than to explain the key concepts)?
A book seems like a great idea, though I also expect that it’d appeal to the “high-effort” crowd. The more I think about it, the more I think that I really hope some of these become https://www.clearerthinking.org modules :) (in addition to a tool version like the one in the 2017 guide).
I wonder if creating shorter versions might also help you get more feedback, as well as feedback from a different audience. Dismantling the guide into smaller chunks could be helpful at figuring out which parts are most helpful/clear (and perhaps which parts are most worth developing/refining further). Also, if the shorter tools attract a different crowd (i.e., those who aren’t as willing to spends days or more making a career plan), the feedback on the “low-effort” version might differ in meaningful ways from the feedback on the high-effort version.
I’m sure there are plenty of initiatives going on at 80k, and I have no idea where “creating new short modules/interactive tools for career planning” would rank on the list. Nonetheless, I think it’d be a valuable idea (potentially more valuable than long guides or “key points” materials that are more informational than applied), and I’d be excited to see/share them if you decide to pursue them.
I’m pretty tempted to break it up into standalone sections in the next version.
I agree the tools are worth doing at some point (and maybe breaking up into multiple tools). I guess you’re also aware of our ‘make a decision’ tool that’s in guided track?
I think I might be a bit more skeptical about tools though. They take a lot longer to make & edit, and some fraction of our core audience finds them a bit lame (though some love them). Personally, I’d prefer a google doc which I can easily customise, where I can see everything on one page, and easily share for feedback. And it seems like the youth might agree :p