Hi. I don’t think my explanation would take 45 minutes to explore, but I can share the basics of my thought process: I’d feel pretty dumb if I donate a few thousand dollars, and then a year later I don’t have enough money to pay for basic necessities. I’ve never had both A) a feeling of financial stability, and B) the confidence that such stability would continue in the future. Thus, I’ve wanted to build up a ‘nest egg’ for myself so that I won’t starve or be homeless.
A is pretty easy to explain and understand. That covers times when I’ve been employed on short-term contracts, or when life has been in flux because I was moving from one place to another, or simply when I earned money that wasn’t enough to cover both my basics and my financial goals. B is simply times when I’ve had a good job, I’ve known it wouldn’t last forever, and I’ve known that I would eventually need my savings to pay for food, clothing, and shelter. One doesn’t know how long it will take to find new employment. If it takes two weeks that isn’t a big issue, but if it takes months and months that is something I want to be financially prepared for.
If I had a skillset that was highly in-demand in the job market or if I had tenure at a famous university, then I wouldn’t be as concerned about income and supporting myself financially. As much as I admire the Oxford professors who donate a large chunk of their income each year, being tenured means more-or-less guaranteed income, making the decision to donate relatively low risk. If I had a big chunk of guaranteed income, I would certainly donate. Or if I had a life more like some of the earn to give folks I’ve read about, then I would do the same (attending a well-known and well-reputed school, studying a field that gives good career prospects, meeting a life partner relatively early in life and sharing expenses, living near a supportive family, earning a strong salary for many years, having family and network in a place with plenty of professional opportunities, living in the same city for the whole career and thus building a long-lasting network of professional contacts, working for well-known and well-reputed companies, etc.). But through a combination of circumstances external to me (such as where I grew up and what fields I was introduced to early on) and of my own choices (such as being drawn to fields that tend to not earn much or be highly respected), I don’t have those resources and that stability.
EDIT: My current perspective feels a bit extreme or outrageous, but I’d like to save up and have enough money so that I am financially stable/secure/independent, and then donate. But if I had some kind of foreknowledge that I would always be able to secure employment within a month and the employment would always be at least moderately enjoyable and pay me at decently good amounts, then I would probably be comfortable to start donating now.
At the risk of self-psychoanalysis & navel gazing, I could tell a vaguely similiar story but more about childhood experiences (e.g., worrying about food security, watching my parents struggle to make ends meet). I think those experiences probably make me (and maybe others similarly situated) more hesitant to lock in financial commitments of this sort for 20-40 years than hypothetical me without those experiences.
This remains true even though I rationally should give my childhood experiences little weight—I’ve been a practicing lawyer for over 15 years, have well-above-average job security, a wife with a good job, and we’ve consistently donated 10-20% to charity throughout our marriage without any real financial discomfort. The base rate of top-three US law school grads experiencing food insecurity is probably low.
My current “fix” re GWWC is a series of escalating trial pledges to raise my comfort level re: formally/publicly pledging to continue doing something I’ve already been doing. That “fix” may be helpful for others, depending on their personal situations, but not others.
Anyway, I think it’s really valuable for people who have past or present life experiences that are probably much less common in EA than in the general population to share how those experiences shape their experience of EA. I appreciate Joseph having done so.
I think this perspective around how upbringing and financial insecurity is really common, and can absolutely understand why it generates hesitancy to make a lifelong financial commitment!
I also think your “fix” of taking trial pledges is also common for people with a similar perspective.
Agreed that it’s really valuable for us to understand diverse perspectives here! This is really helpful for us in order to think through in order to help achieve our mission.
I am exactly in the same boat, very specialized path and lack of financial visibility. I also work for an EA org, which means that I chose a pay cut (and the role is time-constrained in terms of funding) compared to other jobs that could be safer (consulting, etc).
But recently, I’ve been thinking about the fact that donating is a bit like starting a new sport class or any new habit; if you don’t start, you’ll never start (except under ideal conditions but that rarely happens!). Accepting a bit of risk to accomplish something that you care a lot about makes sense for me, which is why I will start giving soon. There will never be a threshold of financial safety where I’ll feel completely safe, so waiting will not do good to me.
Also, inflation means that all my careful savings are losing value right now, so I’m realizing that I would be better off spending a part of it now rather than wait and see their value slowly disappearing.
This is only my choice; I just wanted to comment since I am a bit in the same case but came to think differently about it recently. Also just want to empathize with your situation. Sometimes I feel bad when I see that some of my colleagues have been giving for ten years, but again, we clearly were not given the same set of circumstances at birth.
But recently, I’ve been thinking about the fact that donating is a bit like starting a new sport class or any new habit; if you don’t start, you’ll never start (except under ideal conditions but that rarely happens!).
And moreover, since 10% is a ~arbitrary figure anyway, it is possible to inculcate this habit at a 1% or even 0.1% level. To the extent that one is creating a habit, the amount shouldn’t matter much as long as it is meaningful to the giver.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Joseph! Really appreciate you taking the time!
I think your feelings here are shared by many! And I do think that taking a significant pledge without a sense of financial stability might not be a good idea. I personally decided to take a pledge once I felt I was in a position to be able to cover expenses if I needed to stop working for a period of time.
The pledges we offer at GWWC don’t require you to donate in the case of being unemployed, but this doesn’t solve the issue of having enough runway to cover living expenses in the meantime.
Some of our members have also taken The Further Pledge, where they choose to donate everything above $X annually, where X is set by them. This might be a way for people who are concerned about financial stability and ensuring a nest egg is built up or maintained to give in a way that might address that concern a bit!
Not suggesting you do this, just thinking about how GWWC can support people in a number of circumstances with our current pledges.
Hi. I don’t think my explanation would take 45 minutes to explore, but I can share the basics of my thought process: I’d feel pretty dumb if I donate a few thousand dollars, and then a year later I don’t have enough money to pay for basic necessities. I’ve never had both A) a feeling of financial stability, and B) the confidence that such stability would continue in the future. Thus, I’ve wanted to build up a ‘nest egg’ for myself so that I won’t starve or be homeless.
A is pretty easy to explain and understand. That covers times when I’ve been employed on short-term contracts, or when life has been in flux because I was moving from one place to another, or simply when I earned money that wasn’t enough to cover both my basics and my financial goals. B is simply times when I’ve had a good job, I’ve known it wouldn’t last forever, and I’ve known that I would eventually need my savings to pay for food, clothing, and shelter. One doesn’t know how long it will take to find new employment. If it takes two weeks that isn’t a big issue, but if it takes months and months that is something I want to be financially prepared for.
If I had a skillset that was highly in-demand in the job market or if I had tenure at a famous university, then I wouldn’t be as concerned about income and supporting myself financially. As much as I admire the Oxford professors who donate a large chunk of their income each year, being tenured means more-or-less guaranteed income, making the decision to donate relatively low risk. If I had a big chunk of guaranteed income, I would certainly donate. Or if I had a life more like some of the earn to give folks I’ve read about, then I would do the same (attending a well-known and well-reputed school, studying a field that gives good career prospects, meeting a life partner relatively early in life and sharing expenses, living near a supportive family, earning a strong salary for many years, having family and network in a place with plenty of professional opportunities, living in the same city for the whole career and thus building a long-lasting network of professional contacts, working for well-known and well-reputed companies, etc.). But through a combination of circumstances external to me (such as where I grew up and what fields I was introduced to early on) and of my own choices (such as being drawn to fields that tend to not earn much or be highly respected), I don’t have those resources and that stability.
EDIT: My current perspective feels a bit extreme or outrageous, but I’d like to save up and have enough money so that I am financially stable/secure/independent, and then donate. But if I had some kind of foreknowledge that I would always be able to secure employment within a month and the employment would always be at least moderately enjoyable and pay me at decently good amounts, then I would probably be comfortable to start donating now.
I hearted this!
At the risk of self-psychoanalysis & navel gazing, I could tell a vaguely similiar story but more about childhood experiences (e.g., worrying about food security, watching my parents struggle to make ends meet). I think those experiences probably make me (and maybe others similarly situated) more hesitant to lock in financial commitments of this sort for 20-40 years than hypothetical me without those experiences.
This remains true even though I rationally should give my childhood experiences little weight—I’ve been a practicing lawyer for over 15 years, have well-above-average job security, a wife with a good job, and we’ve consistently donated 10-20% to charity throughout our marriage without any real financial discomfort. The base rate of top-three US law school grads experiencing food insecurity is probably low.
My current “fix” re GWWC is a series of escalating trial pledges to raise my comfort level re: formally/publicly pledging to continue doing something I’ve already been doing. That “fix” may be helpful for others, depending on their personal situations, but not others.
Anyway, I think it’s really valuable for people who have past or present life experiences that are probably much less common in EA than in the general population to share how those experiences shape their experience of EA. I appreciate Joseph having done so.
Hi Jason,
I think this perspective around how upbringing and financial insecurity is really common, and can absolutely understand why it generates hesitancy to make a lifelong financial commitment!
I also think your “fix” of taking trial pledges is also common for people with a similar perspective.
Agreed that it’s really valuable for us to understand diverse perspectives here! This is really helpful for us in order to think through in order to help achieve our mission.
Thanks to both you and Joseph for sharing!
Hey Joseph,
I am exactly in the same boat, very specialized path and lack of financial visibility. I also work for an EA org, which means that I chose a pay cut (and the role is time-constrained in terms of funding) compared to other jobs that could be safer (consulting, etc).
But recently, I’ve been thinking about the fact that donating is a bit like starting a new sport class or any new habit; if you don’t start, you’ll never start (except under ideal conditions but that rarely happens!). Accepting a bit of risk to accomplish something that you care a lot about makes sense for me, which is why I will start giving soon. There will never be a threshold of financial safety where I’ll feel completely safe, so waiting will not do good to me.
Also, inflation means that all my careful savings are losing value right now, so I’m realizing that I would be better off spending a part of it now rather than wait and see their value slowly disappearing.
This is only my choice; I just wanted to comment since I am a bit in the same case but came to think differently about it recently. Also just want to empathize with your situation. Sometimes I feel bad when I see that some of my colleagues have been giving for ten years, but again, we clearly were not given the same set of circumstances at birth.
And moreover, since 10% is a ~arbitrary figure anyway, it is possible to inculcate this habit at a 1% or even 0.1% level. To the extent that one is creating a habit, the amount shouldn’t matter much as long as it is meaningful to the giver.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Joseph! Really appreciate you taking the time!
I think your feelings here are shared by many! And I do think that taking a significant pledge without a sense of financial stability might not be a good idea. I personally decided to take a pledge once I felt I was in a position to be able to cover expenses if I needed to stop working for a period of time.
The pledges we offer at GWWC don’t require you to donate in the case of being unemployed, but this doesn’t solve the issue of having enough runway to cover living expenses in the meantime.
Some of our members have also taken The Further Pledge, where they choose to donate everything above $X annually, where X is set by them. This might be a way for people who are concerned about financial stability and ensuring a nest egg is built up or maintained to give in a way that might address that concern a bit!
Not suggesting you do this, just thinking about how GWWC can support people in a number of circumstances with our current pledges.