I think EAIF vastly overstates the effectiveness difference between paid vs. unpaid organizers, and dismisses the reputational risks of having paid organizers. Many college groups thrive without paid organizers, and EAIF-level of funding paid organizers only start being necessary once groups sizes reach 100. I don’t think there are any EA college groups that large, and they can fund-raise for it. I think the reputational harm—that EA is for self-serving grifters—causes far more damage than the marginal benefit from paid recruitment. It completely undercuts the message of using resources effectively.
The EAIF isn’t supporting university groups anymore (though I don’t think it’s implausible that we will start doing this again in the future).
I think we have a pretty good sense of which uni groups and activities tend to produce people that go on to do high-impact work. I don’t think that is the only metric on which we should assess uni groups, but it’s an important one. I do think that groups wth paid organisers tend to have more measurable impact than groups without (though ofc there are selection effects). The groups also generally seem larger and more productive.
I think the reputational harm effects that you pointed out exist, but I don’t think they are particularly large. My personal view is that people should be compensated for doing challenging work that produces large amounts of altruistic value and I think there is plenty of evidence to suggest that many EA groups do have a large positive impact e.g. the Rethink Priorities and Open Phil surveys.
EA Funds would like to do more retroactive investigation into the effectiveness of past grants, if you have ideas on which metrics would convince you that paid organizers are effective vs ineffective use of marginal resources, that’d be really appreciated! But of course there’s no expectation that you’d do our work for us either!
I don’t think I fully understand the reputational argument. The most naive interpretation of “It completely undercuts the message of using resources effectively” is that you’re simply assuming the conclusion. If the EV of having paid organizers is very low (or worse, negative), then of course this will be a hypocritical message to send to others. But if the EV is high (or at least higher than counterfactuals), then your actions are in line with your moral beliefs.
FWIW, I’m pretty sure EAIF organizers do, or at least did, believe their grants are cost-effective. But as you say, they might well be wrong,
Many college groups thrive without paid organizers
Do you have good specific examples? Impressive college groups that lead to highly talented young people doing positively impactful projects would be great to emulate!
I think EAIF vastly overstates the effectiveness difference between paid vs. unpaid organizers, and dismisses the reputational risks of having paid organizers. Many college groups thrive without paid organizers, and EAIF-level of funding paid organizers only start being necessary once groups sizes reach 100. I don’t think there are any EA college groups that large, and they can fund-raise for it. I think the reputational harm—that EA is for self-serving grifters—causes far more damage than the marginal benefit from paid recruitment. It completely undercuts the message of using resources effectively.
The EAIF isn’t supporting university groups anymore (though I don’t think it’s implausible that we will start doing this again in the future).
I think we have a pretty good sense of which uni groups and activities tend to produce people that go on to do high-impact work. I don’t think that is the only metric on which we should assess uni groups, but it’s an important one. I do think that groups wth paid organisers tend to have more measurable impact than groups without (though ofc there are selection effects). The groups also generally seem larger and more productive.
I think the reputational harm effects that you pointed out exist, but I don’t think they are particularly large. My personal view is that people should be compensated for doing challenging work that produces large amounts of altruistic value and I think there is plenty of evidence to suggest that many EA groups do have a large positive impact e.g. the Rethink Priorities and Open Phil surveys.
EA Funds would like to do more retroactive investigation into the effectiveness of past grants, if you have ideas on which metrics would convince you that paid organizers are effective vs ineffective use of marginal resources, that’d be really appreciated! But of course there’s no expectation that you’d do our work for us either!
I don’t think I fully understand the reputational argument. The most naive interpretation of “It completely undercuts the message of using resources effectively” is that you’re simply assuming the conclusion. If the EV of having paid organizers is very low (or worse, negative), then of course this will be a hypocritical message to send to others. But if the EV is high (or at least higher than counterfactuals), then your actions are in line with your moral beliefs.
FWIW, I’m pretty sure EAIF organizers do, or at least did, believe their grants are cost-effective. But as you say, they might well be wrong,
Do you have good specific examples? Impressive college groups that lead to highly talented young people doing positively impactful projects would be great to emulate!