London GWWC group co-lead: https://āāwww.givingwhatwecan.org/āālondon
Organiser of the EY Effective Altruism workplace group and EA London Quarterly Review coworking sessions.
Original EA Taskmaster https://āāforum.effectivealtruism.org/āāposts/āā9qcnrRD3ZHSwibtBC/āāea-taskmaster-game
In my day job, Iām an accountant turned product person in tax technology.
London folksāIām going to be running the EA Taskmaster game again at the AIM office on the afternoon of Sunday 8th September.
Itās a fun, slightly geeky, way to spend a Sunday afternoon. Check out last yearās list of tasks for a flavour of whatās in store š
Sign up here
(Wee bit late in properly advertising so please do spread the word!)
The post emphasizes systemic thinking but doesnāt clarify how this would change cause prioritization in practice. The example takes as a given that we should make value judgments favoring ecosystems over human/āanimal welfare. Iāve seen various posts from people working on existential risk who try to put estimates on likelihood of systemic failures.
While measurement in complex systems is challenging, Iād like to see more concrete proposals from systemic thinkers. What specific interventions do they suggest? How would they evaluate impact, even roughly?
I think this post falls into the classic āEA shouldā trapāit criticizes current approaches but doesnāt actually suggest concrete solutions or alternatives.
Iām saying this because Iād genuinely be interested in seeing more concrete analysis from this perspective but donāt think this post is productive.
Thank you for your post, Deborah. While I share your concern for the environment, I think thereās a key difference in our perspectives thatās worth discussing.
Many EAs, myself included, donāt view nature as having intrinsic moral value. Instead, we care about environmental protection primarily because of its impact on sentient beingsāhumans and animals. This doesnāt mean we ignore environmental issues, but rather that we approach them from a different angle and would likely make different trade offs.
The reason environmental issues arenāt typically top priorities for EAs is that we try to focus on areas where we can have the greatest positive impact per unit of resources. In many cases, weāve found that direct interventions to improve human and animal welfare, or work on existential risks like AI safety, seem to offer more leverage for improving lives and securing a positive long-term future.
That said, I think thereās a lot of common ground given we do similar goals for a flourishing planet for humans and animals.
Iām curious how you envision āEffective Ecocentric Altruismā in practice. What specific interventions would you prioritise? How would you measure impact?
Thanks for sharing thisāit is very helpful. In particular, Annex 3 has clearly articulated some concerns I had with EA community building and Iād love to hear more about how testing for this framework goes.
Just to flag that there are a number of links that donāt work and take me to a āSorry, you donāt have access to this draftā page on the forum.
Thanks everyone for coming!!
Iām hosting attempt #2 for a summer picnic on 4th August. Sign up here: https://āāforum.effectivealtruism.org/āāevents/āāHceHSBPXd2Xycwq5z/āāgwwc-london-summer-picnic-attempt-2
Unless Ben is fundraising to scale up his snack granting operations, he likely doesnāt need to conduct a thorough externally legible analysis.
However, this is a spreadsheet-friendly picnic so he would be welcome to do so.
Yes
Hey, weāre on the blue tartan picnic blanket and Iām wearing a green skirt
On the LMIC migration platform, I found this UK based for-profit doing what looks like a similar thing:
Really excited to see this post! Iāve written a very early draft of something similar so very pleased that itās already been done (likely better than I would have) so thank you š¤
My background is Transfer Pricing at a Big 4 but Iāve moved into tax tech. Iād be interested in coordinating tax nerds interested so anyone reading this that would be interested then please message my EA forum account (Iāll make something happen if thereās enough people but also very happy to just chat about tax).
I think this would be valuable since:
Iāve had some great conversations with other EAs interested in tax policy
Iād love to see more posts like this [1]and itād be great to get help building out the Tax Policy wiki on the EA forum
Having a space like this would be a great gateway for mid career folks already in Tax to think about how to use their skills for good (or to start donating effectively)
My take is that, for those just starting their careers and looking to build career capital, a tax graduate scheme with a large international firm is a decent career first step.
Pay is solid for a fresh graduate meaning you can have an immediate impact by giving a % to effective charities.
Depending on the department, the hours are not crazy meaning you can do side projects and volunteer to keep engaged in EA stuff.
In particular, working on EA workplace groups in these key orgs seems valuable for broader community engagement
Large firms tend to have great learning and development opportunities. They will often pay (and give you time off to study) for professional qualification in accountancy and/āor tax which is very transferable to an operations/āorganisation building skillset.
Other links readers might be interested in:
Tax Policy for Good talk from EAGx Virtual: https://āāwww.youtube.com/āālive/āāN45Q1mAfIz4?si=QOx7AO1a9Lq3XR4m
@OECDtax is a good follow on twitter for updates on their analysis. https://āāx.com/āāOECDtax?t=_C_p0wS9XhTtq6WTU5ZZMQ&s=09
The international tax space was also an area that I thought might have been an interesting case study for AI Governance (there was a request for those here) given the conflicting incentives between countries. Thereās potentially interesting overlap between International Tax Policy and AI Governance if the technology is as economically transformative as some think and how tax policy could be used to redistribute benefits globally.
Since they were well received last year, Iām going to be hosting the EA London Quarterly Review Coworking sessions again for 2024.
You can register here: Q1 FY24 session sign up; Q2 FY24 session sign up; Q3 FY24 session sign up; Q4 FY24 session sign up
Thanks to Rishane for making this poster and to LEAH for hosting us.
Thanks for all your support!!! Very excited to have you join us in London ā¤ļø
Absolutely agreeāalthough Iām one of the other GWWC London co-leads so I am also biased here. I think low commitment in person socials are really important and tbh the social proof of meeting people like me who donated significantly was the most important factor for me personally.
Iād would like to see people be a lot more public with their pledges. I personally think Linkedin is underutilised hereāadding pledges to the volunteering section your profile is low effort but sets a benchmark.
Iāve personally added my pledge to my email signature, but I think this depends a lot on the kind of role you have, the company you work for and if you think the personal reputation risk is worth the potential upside (influencing someone else to donate more to effective charities).
I think this could be especially powerful for senior people who have a lot of influence but equally Iāve had a few meaningful conversations with people off the back of it.
Iāve got a half-written post on this for this forum series and Alex from @Giving What We Can has created some fantastic banner images for LinkedIn profiles. Some resources from GWWC:
Donating anonymously: Should we be private or public about giving to charity? Ā· Giving What We Can
Why you should mention the Pledge in your LinkedIn summary Ā· Giving What We Can
Great commentāIād add that usually GWWC pledges in the UK are based on pre tax so it wouldnāt actually cost the full Ā£5k. Donations reduce your income for income tax purposes (but not NI) - Payroll Giving (UK) or GAYEāEA Forum (effectivealtruism.org)
ie.
Ā£50k salary
Ā£3.75k donation which is grossed up by 25% from your taxes with gift aid to Ā£5k
If you actually donated Ā£5k then that would be a Ā£7.5k total donation when grossed up with gift aid.
However, the higher rate tax (40%) band starts at ~Ā£50k a year so every Ā£1 donated above that costs 60p
(Working on a longer explainer on this which updates this piece UK Income Tax & Donations ā EA Forum (effectivealtruism.org) but you can check out the underlying spreadsheet which create these graphs here: UK Income tax (including NI) - Google Sheets)
Apologies for the delay in responseāit has been a busy month at work!
Thank you for asking!! I have a lot of suggestions on this so have been trying to legibly structure my thoughts.
However, it has ended up turning into a bit of a monster answer and tbh replying to this comment is blocking me doing effective giving posts.
So Iām going to prioritise writing those this week and get back to you later.
Thanks for understanding!
Fantastic post and thank you for articulating this! I feel really similarly doing workplace organisingāa lot of the value seems to be driven from connecting people to other people that take doing good seriously.
Some people struggle to work out what the EA community is supposed to do for them, or what the point of it all is. For what itās worth, my experience has been that this confusion extends to all levels of seniority within the community. But for me, participating in the community was the obvious way to counter the attrition Brooks warned of. I tend to agree that you will tend to become more like those around you, but that applies to people other than your colleagues, and you can choose who those people are! Maybe those āEAsā even find what you are doing praiseworthy, but a lot of the power is just in feeling less weird for trying.
I often feel like people working at core EA orgs forget how valuable this is for the vast majority of EAs, who do not work with other EAs. Almost everyone I know outside EA, from my parents to my colleagues to my neighbours, is not seeking to improve the wider world with any significant fraction of their resources. Theyāre just getting on with their lives and trying to do right by the people they meet. To the extent they are aware of my giving, their attitude is one of curious fascination.
Do you have thoughts on what youād like to see more of in community building to support E2Gers? Iād be particularly curious about what you think made a difference when you were younger vs now
Oh wow!!! Weād love that!!!
I can arrange for there to be a physical certificate for you to sign.
Hi Mohammadāapologies for the delay in my response.
I understand how you feel. It was easy to get caught up in the opportunities to get lots of money to tackle the suffering and pressing problems in the world. But, retrospectively I think this was a big mistake on their part and everyone involved in EA needs to take a serious look at their approach to risk.
Hopefully, we can avoid falling into this trap again in the future.
Thank you! Thatās very kind!
I feel similarly about finding EA later in my lifeāI heard about it when I was a few years into my career rather than in university. Iām glad I did because if Iād heard about it in uni, I could imagine it becoming my whole deal. Iāve got a lot of value from working a normie corporate job first and Iām glad a lot of my friends really donāt care about EA at all.
One of my other half-written drafts is about the benefits of doing graduate training at an employer that churns out dozens of graduates a year rather than a small EA organisation (where the quality of management, mentorship, training and support is more variable). I think the 80k advice on career capital for new grads is great and getting people to think about their long term output (thinking 20-30 years head rather than just 5) is excellent, but I think their ideas for initial first jobs are limited (and so obviously written by cerebral oxford grads who would have access to top of the range opportunities).
IMO they underrate graduates spending their first few years post-grad joining professions where there are existing networks and professional ethics requirements. Examples would be law/āaccountancy/āengineering/āmedicine/āteaching etc. I think there are downsides (time requirement, skills you might not use later) but I think there are benefits to having a more diverse non-academia EA talent pipeline and I want to spread effective giving into those spaces!! Having the pipeline mostly filled with early start up employees, policy people and management consultants is high riskānone of these roles are accountable to external ethical or professional standards. Plus, having worked in international tax, I now have opinions on potentially high impact tax policy work that isnāt obvious to people without that backgroundāI like being able to bring a different perspective.
***
Good for you on bad criticisms! Keep at it šŖ
Greetings, contestants!
Your day of reckoning begins at 13:00 sharp. Latecomers may find themselves starring in their own private task of shame involving whatever props I found in the AIM storage closet.
For the overeager among you, thereās an optional ābring your ownā lunch at 12:00. This is your chance to meet other contestants for some light pre-game psychological warfare over some sandwiches. Plus, you can help with the setup, which may or may not earn you some favor in my eyes. No promises, though.
Remember, thereās more tasks than time and wide variety in point values. Choose wisely, or donātāyour futile attempts at strategy amuse us equally.
May the contestants with the most robust decision-making under absurd conditions win (as arbitrarily decided by yours truly).
Your benevolent Taskmasters
P.S. Leave your dignity at the door. You wonāt be needing it.