Rockwell
Thank you all for such a warm response to this post and for your thoughtful comments. I was actually very hesitant to share this publicly and braced myself for flak, so thank you for proving me wrong! And thank you to Megan Nelson, Kyle Lucchese, and Irina Gueorguiev for reading a draft and giving me the encouragement I needed to share ❤️ Sharing personal experiences on the Forum can be scary, but also very gratifying!
Thank you for having such a whimsical username!
[Question] Forum + LW relationship: What is the effect?
I think this was downvoted so heavily because of the title, rather than the content. I’m glad you raised this and I personally did not know about it previously. Maybe republish under a title like “OpenAI under fire for underpaying Kenyans used to filter ChatGPT traumatic content” or something along those lines?
Curious if thoughts on this have changed since August.
Posts that are specifically intended for debate and/or reaching shared understanding of different viewpoints and utilize a template participants must fill out to participate. The template forces participants to break down their views and clearly identify what they do and do not agree with from other sides, e.g. built around cruxes, and they force concision.
Some comments have attempted to do this in the recent discussions, but have gotten lost amidst all the other discourse.
On Living Without Idols
It is difficult to engage with you because the potential range of beliefs you could be referring to is so vast, there is no context aside from the Bostrom email, and you’re an anonymous account so there is even less context. Regardless, it sounds like this still comes down to a question of why making (allegedly) truthful statements would lead to life-altering backlash and I see a distinction between “because it threatens the norm and people see it as heretical” and “because it is tied to ideologies that have caused vast suffering.” I also would want to know the purpose of making the incendiary statements: Are they helpful in actually improving the world? Or are they promoting a truth for truth’s sake?
Fwiw, many of the views I express would accurately be described as heretical, by your definition. And I have personally experienced a mob descending and attempting to ruin my life as a result.
It seems a number of people agree with your sentiment, throwaway791, so I’m choosing to respond:
Most people do not experience a “mob descending on them and trying to ruin their life,” especially for merely something they said, and especially for something they couldn’t have anticipated—perhaps by first getting input from a few trusted friends or colleagues—would cause life-altering backlash.
If this is a sensation you genuinely routinely find yourself experiencing such that it is causing you exhaustion, it sounds horribly stressful and I’m very sorry you are going through this. I would encourage you to consider speaking to a mental health professional because my layperson perspective is that this is an exaggerated fear that may be indicative of larger issues around anxiety.
That aside, words and the concepts they perpetuate have consequences. Those consequences can range from hurt feelings to genocidal ideologies taking root. I consistently express views that are outside the social norm, but I don’t share your fear. I think this is because (1) I am never “an edgelord”, (2) I don’t often express ideas that are likely to harm others, and (3) I spend enough time learning about the world and others’ views and experiences to trust I am calibrated well to what is incendiary and why. If you’re spending a great deal of time watching what you say and experiencing uncertainty regarding how others will respond, maybe you’re experiencing a calibration issue. If so, this seems very addressable by exposing yourself to more areas of discourse, cultivating and practicing empathy, and doing more listening than speaking.
Great, thanks!
Very cool! Any plans to acquire the new .giving domain names discussed in this post?
Great list! Thank you for compiling this.
Re: #5, I’d be interested in hearing more from the Alvea team about what ultimately transpired with the “animal studies,” which were controversial the last time I saw them come up on the Forum.
[Question] How many hours is your standard workweek? Why?
Thanks for writing this. I want to make sure I’m understanding one part correctly: For each meal, you budgeted $67-$100 per person? If that is correct, that seems extremely high to me, unless I’m missing something.
Others please correct me if I’m wrong, but my understanding was that the intended use of Wytham Abbey was specifically for non-EA/EA-adjacent programming, ie retreats currently organized by CEA would largely not be moved to WA. I’m not sure if that is still the intent and if I understood it correctly when it was explained to me ~8 months ago, but this seems relevant to the discussion if accurate.
Adding to this, there is the substantial staff time of identifying and setting up each venue that can be saved by owning a single venue and using that single venue for storage (which also means likely savings on supplies that can more easily be reused).
There’s still, however, a larger question about the cost-effectiveness of EAs organizing conferences and retreats at scale.
Very excited to see this! Also, quick plug: On December 13th, EA NYC is hosting a virtual presentation where Elisabeth will be presenting on ACE’s work alongside Giving Green’s Dan Stein. It should be a great chance to learn more about both orgs’ methodologies and recommendations :)
I’m also sorry to hear this has been your experience and as both a woman and the director of EA NYC, I am always here to discuss cultural issues and possible recourse, as is our dedicated EA NYC community health coordinator, Megan Nelson: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSerQKtoQULEjuGGqTaKPoqj-WwCZJqKKri_pi0fdQ-Ag5xANQ/viewform We both think about these topics a lot and are working to steer the community in an increasingly healthy and safe direction.
Thanks for this. I’ll add that I think even in less tense times, there are alternatives that achieve similar clarity while avoiding community culture downsides. Money is a fraught topic, EA has at times been accused of being classist, and people should be able to engage in EA discourse regardless of their relationship with money.
Wow, thank you for writing this. I’m really interested in parasites and their potential suffering generally and this seems like an area where a greater understanding and reasonable, welfare-promoting/population-abolishing intervention would also possibly have public appeal from a “yuck” perspective.