Co-founder of Maternal Health Initiative, a family planning organization incubated through Charity Entrepreneurship. Writer of Beyond Denial. Formerly worked on policy in the California civil service.
Sarah Eustis-Guthrie
More EAs should consider “non-EA” jobs
Thank you for sharing that! I like your idea about talking to people within these orgs—I know that my sense of how things work has been really changed by actually seeing some of this firsthand.
I think another element to consider is what level of government we’re talking about. My sense is that the federal budget tends to be more politicized than many state and local-level budgets, and that with state and local budgets there’s more room for a discussion of “what is actually needed here in the community” vs. it becoming a straightforward red/blue issue (at least here in the states). I wonder if this means that, at least in some instances, interventions related to state and local-level would be more tractable than national ones. I’m reminded of the Zurich ballot initiative, for example.
That’s a good point. I don’t have any data on this (not sure if this is something addressed in any of the EA surveys?) but my understanding is that you’re totally right that most EAs are in non-EA jobs.
What I was trying to get at in my post was less the thought that more EAs should take jobs in non-EA spaces, but more the notion that discussions of career choice should take those choices more seriously. My title—More EAs should consider non-EA jobs—could be expanded to be “More EAs should consider non-EA jobs as a valid way of doing the most good.” But there was definitely some ambiguity there.
I think it’s valuable to distinguish between folks who take non-EA jobs out of EA-related considerations (i.e. “I’m taking this job because I think it will allow me to do the most good”) vs. those who take them for unrelated considerations (such as interest, availability, location, etc.). I would guess that both approaches are at play for many people. I don’t think that conversations of career choice talk enough about the former; I think they tend to foreground career paths in EA orgs and don’t talk much about the potential value of bringing EA into non-EA spaces.
I totally agree! You articulated something I’ve been thinking about lately in a very clear manner; I think you’re absolutely right to distinguish the value of neglectedness for funding vs. career choice—it’s such a useful heuristic for funding considerations, but I think it can be used too indiscriminately in conversations about career choice.
These are great, thank you for sharing! I really appreciate your framing of your focus on non-EA jobs, especially the language of low-hanging fruit and novelty of EA ideas in non-EA spaces. I like that you distinguish between EA as a movement/identity and the ideas that underlie it; I think that too often, we elide the two, and miss opportunities to share the underlying ideas separate from the wider identity. And I also like your point about the importance of integrating EA and non-EA: I feel like there has been a lot of effort dedicated to strengthening the EA community, as well as substantial effort dedicated to getting people to join the EA community, but less energy devoted to bringing EA ideas into spaces where folks might not want the whole identity, but would appreciate some of the ideas. It’s possible that that work has just been more behind-the-scenes, however.
Anyways, thanks for sharing-I’m happy to hear that this has been an ongoing topic of conversation. I’m going to go read more of that careers questions thread—somehow I missed that the first time around!
That’s a good point, and I’m inclined to agree, at least on an abstract level. My question then becomes how you evaluate what the backup plans of others are. Is this something based on data? Rough estimations? It seems like it could work on a very roughly approximated level, but I would imagine there would be a lot of uncertainty and variation.
Thank you for sharing this! Your and Jeff’s EA meetups were my first introduction to the EA community more broadly, and the warm and welcoming tone that you set made a real difference. And in a space that often felt very male and STEM-dominant, it really helped to have another woman to talk to from a direct-work background. You’ve done so much good for the community, work that may not have been possible if you had ignored your instincts way back then.
And I appreciate your candor; I know I tend to assume that people who have been more successful weren’t wracked with doubt in the past. It definitely helps provide some perspective.
Agreed! Honestly, it seems strange to me that there aren’t more EA resources dedicated to getting ultra-wealthy people to contribute to EA causes. Perhaps it’s that it isn’t very tractable, or that it requires a highly specific skillset, or maybe even that it’s bad PR with too much potential for backfiring to be so blunt about it—but this seems like a HUGE opportunity that’s currently neglected. EA has been pretty successful from getting buy-in from a decent number of high earners—where “high-earner” is defined relative to the average American income (think tech folks earning to give). And there are a few ultra wealthy folks on board (e.g. the open phil funders). But getting even one or two more ultra-high net worth folks on board could have a monetary impact equivalent to thousands of people earning to give. Are people familiar with EA initiatives working on this? Or am I missing other downsides?
Thank you for sharing, it’s fantastic to see such a level of detail! Minor suggestion: it might be helpful for you to explicitly state that “we” = OpenPhil at the beginning of the post—that’s not necessarily clear to folks who aren’t as familiar with x-posts from the blog.
I love this! I agree that checking in on whether your life is aligned with your values and aspirations is absolutely crucial. This looks like a promising way of doing it in a more structured way than is typically done. I do a weekly check-in that covers many of the categories you mention, and I’ve found it enormously valuable, but I hadn’t considered doing it for a longer timescale.
I think the closest mainstream American culture gets to something like this is New Year’s resolutions, but those are prospective rather than retrospective and don’t necessarily come with a lot of analytical rigor (speaking from personal experience…). I think most of us would be happier and more fulfilled, as well as better community members, if we did something like you suggest here, or perhaps a somewhat abbreviated version. Thanks for sharing!
A Few Strategies for Increasing Productivity
The most common critique of effective altruism that I encounter is the following: it’s not fair to choose. Many people see a fundamental unfairness in prioritizing the needs of some over the needs of others. Such critics ask: who are we to decide whose need is most urgent? I hear this critique from some on the left who prefer mutual aid or a giving-when-asked approach; from some who prefer to give locally; and from some who are simply uneasy about the idea of choosing.
To this, I inevitably reply that we are always choosing. When we give money only to those who ask as we walk down the street, we are choosing to prioritize their needs over the needs of those whose calls for help cannot or will not reach us. The choice not to choose is really a choice to leave the decision to external factors.
Resources are limited. We must choose. The question is how, and this is the role of effective altruism.
This post articulates an essential component of effective altruism in an elegant way. It provides a simple metaphor that is helpful both for adherents of the movement to reflect on what effective altruism involves and to communicate with the public about the ideas that undergird the movement. This simple, powerful metaphor renders this post deserving of lasting attention.
The post itself could be stronger; I think there’s a reasonable argument that the post would be equally strong or stronger without the central example. An abbreviated version of the piece, consisting of the first full paragraph in conjunction with the final four, could serve as a brief overview of this sharp idea. However, that’s something of a quibble: the piece is well-written, and explores a brilliant idea. I’m grateful that I had the chance to read it, and I would highly recommend that others give it a read.
Thanks for sharing this. I’ve frankly been consistently surprised by the low proportion of content on the forum that currently relates to animal welfare. For example, most of the EAs I know—even those who aren’t focused on animal advocacy as a cause area for activism/career—are vegetarian or vegan, yet I’ve only rarely encountered content here that’s related to dietary choices. It seems to me that encouraging more engagement related to animal welfare and advocacy would be a great place to invest some time and energy!
However, I’m not sure if a sub-forum would be the best approach to that. I’m not inherently opposed; rather, I’m not sure if it would be the ideal first step. I think it would come down to identifying why it is that there isn’t more engagement: are online EAA discussions happening elsewhere, such as in FB groups? Is it a vicious cycle of the current lack of content furthering further disinterest/lack of engagement, as you suggest? A better sense of that could inform solutions: perhaps a sub-forum, as you suggest, or perhaps weekly posts on EAA topics, or concerted efforts to move discussions to here from existing forums. Just a few thoughts; thank you for raising this topic!
Thanks for sharing these resources, Quinn! I like the discussion of the importance of agendas in the first link and the emphasis on taking notes in the second one; documentation can be so helpful both in the moment and looking back! Glad my writeup was helpful.
Fellow UChicago alum here, also from a house with hardcore house culture (save Breckinridge!) and I think your comparison to house culture is useful in understanding some of the caveats of GITV moments. Being part of an intense, somewhat insular group with strong traditions and a strong sense of itself can be absolutely exhilarating and foster strong cohesion, as you say, but it also can be alienating to those who are more on the edges. Put differently, I absolutely think we should encourage GITV moments, but that spirit can go too far. Once you start saying “the people who don’t get in the van aren’t real members of [GROUP],” that starts pushing some people away.
With EA as with house culture, I think it’s important to find a balance between cultivating passionate intensity and acknowledging that folks have other things going on and can’t always commit 100%; important to cultivate GITV moments but also acknowledge and build systems and traditions that acknowledge that you can’t always get in the van—and, furthermore, that often folks with more privilege can more easily get in the van. If you have a shift at work or have to care for your kid, you can’t go on spontaneous trips in the same way that a person with fewer obligations might.
Thank you for sharing! This seems like a great idea. As Scronkfinkle states, there is indeed currently some EA funding going to existing think tanks through Open Phil—not sure about other large funders—but this definitely seems like an area where more funding may be highly beneficial.
I particularly like your distinction between technical expertise and decision-making capability as well as your point that this is a promising avenue for spreading EA ideas. I share your concerns about EAs being overly siloed in EA orgs, and it seems like funding EA work at non-EA think tanks could be a good way to counteract some of those forces.
Thanks for sharing. He’s been one of my heroes for a long time, and I see him as having both strong overlap with certain EA ways of thinking and serious differences.
He was a person who had an unswerving commitment to justice and improving human flourishing. He recognized the utter injustice of health inequalities and was able to articulate that vision so that it could be understood by many folks who don’t typically care about the suffering of far-off people who look different than them. These ways of thinking are central to EA for me: the sense that we have no right to discount the suffering of far-off individuals, no matter who they are or what they look like; the sense that we have serious moral obligations that require serious commitment.
He was also a person who situated medical problems within sociopolitical contexts, and who believed that comprehensive solutions (i.e., investing in health systems across the board) were far superior to targeted interventions (i.e., bed nets). He was critical of approaches focused on cost-effectiveness, arguing that they were morally abhorrent. In this sense, he is obviously taking a very different approach to the traditional EA approach. But I think that some of his arguments are valuable counters to the EA emphasis on targeted interventions,illustrating as they do that targeted interventions are subsidized by existing infrastructure, and that some initiatives–such as the Partners in Health campaign against multi-drug resistant TB in Peru–can be initially non-cost effective but eventually change market pressures and norms such that, in toto, they are incredibly cost-effective. Farmer’s work reminds us that assessments of cost-effectiveness must take into account that inputs are not stable, and that initiatives can be transformative, and that if we zealously focus on short-term effects, we will miss out on opportunities for transformative change.
I don’t agree with everything that Farmer stated or fought for. But I think the EA community would benefit from the insights from his life and work. Paul Farmer is worthy of the utmost respect for his unwavering commitment to improving the lives of marginalized people, and his death is a tragic loss.
Could you talk a little about how selections will be chosen? Will there be a peer review process?
Thanks for sharing this. I wasn’t very familiar with Giving Green and you bring up interesting points. I would like to push back against two of your points: 1) that progressive groups are the ones making climate change partisan, and 2) that searching for consensus is the best way to find legislative success in our current political climate. You say that “making climate change a partisan issue might look promising in the short-term given the current Democratic trifecta, though the wafer-thin majority and existence of the filibuster somewhat dampens the case even there, but in even the medium term there is an obvious and potentially very large downside to such an approach.”
Climate change is already a partisan issue. I’d argue that it’s partisan mostly not because of what progressive climate activists are doing, but rather because of right wing climate denialism. In my opinion, progressive groups dialing it down wouldn’t make the Republicans any less obstructionist, but rather further defang the left and create even less of a chance for change. Let’s imagine several scenarios:
Scenario 1: Republicans are obstructionist, most/all Democrats push for compromise with Republicans, orgs like CATF push for bipartisan initiatives, orgs like Sunrise don’t do much. Likely outcomes:
Republicans make minor concessions and mildly more progressive climate legislation passes, OR
Republicans continue to be just as obstructionist as they’ve been for the past 15 years and nothing passes (unless the filibuster is eliminated).
Scenario 2: Republicans are obstructionist, some Democrats push for compromise, while others push for more radical change in conjunction with orgs like Sunrise. Likely outcomes:
The issue becomes even more partisan and divided and nothing changes OR
Republicans and moderate democrats bow to strong grassroots pressure and strong climate legislation is passed.
This framing would suggest that strong progressive climate action would offer both higher risk and higher potential reward, which seems accurate to me.
My opinion is that it’s going to take a lot for progressive climate legislation to be passed, and I think if we keep saying “the Republicans are effectively controlling the narrative re climate change and that will never change, we have to push gently so as to not ruffle feathers,” we’re only going to get tiny amounts of change (or none at all). Climate change seems like an issue where we can’t afford to wait. Furthermore, narratives aren’t static; they can change! Think of cases such as the civil rights movement in the ’60s: changing the narrative around civil rights and achieving legislative success came not from finding consensus with recalcitrant segregationists but by an aggressive progressive movement willing to make noise. Of course, the analogy you choose makes a big difference. Feel free to share an analogy that would point to the opposite conclusion, but I’m having trouble thinking of one.
Thanks for reading, and I’m very eager to hear any rebuttals that folks have.