one of the reasons I joined was infact specifically because GWWC was committed only to the narrow cause and not a club for EA types in general.
I think that cause agnosticism is probably the most important novel ingredient of effective altruism, so seeing this kind of sentiment is disheartening. (I don’t have strong views on the pledge itself.)
One could be a GWWCer without being an effective altruist. Indeed, given that GWWC is focused on global poverty, a priori it seems to be inherently cause-partial.
I am fairly cause agnostic to causes that have provable impact and don’t rely on highly contestable philosophical premises for their justification. I consider evidence of impact (making beliefs pay rent) to be central to that. There are lots of causes (for example—open borders, x-risk also) that I think may plausibly have a large impact but don’t have the evidence to show that my donations will pay rent in the way charities currently supported by GiveWell & GWWC do.
I don’t see how this is consistent with pledging to support the cause indefinitely. (I’m not objecting to GWWC being a poverty-focused community.)
It’s worth noting that your stance towards evidence appears to be unusual amongst modern philanthropists, and in particular the standard of “provable” seems both counterproductive and radical. I hope that this stance doesn’t become a standard part of what makes effective altruism distinctive.
I am glad that the open philanthropy project (formerly givewell labs) exists; given that foothold, I think that overreliance on measurement is a significantly less likely failure mode than it otherwise would be. Low epistemic standards and insufficient skepticism seem like more plausible failure modes, and I think we are on the same page concerning those issues. (I agree that more openness exacerbates these difficulties, though I am skeptical that an exclusive focus on poverty per se is too helpful.)
“It’s worth noting that your stance towards evidence appears to be unusual amongst modern philanthropists, and in particular the standard of “provable” seems both counterproductive and radical. I hope that this stance doesn’t become a standard part of what makes effective altruism distinctive.”
I think this stance towards evidence is pretty common in GiveWell donors (which far outnumber EAs) and I agree it’s not super common among general philanthropists (although pretty common in government health aid) circles but many EA concepts are not common among general philanthropists.
I think that cause agnosticism is probably the most important novel ingredient of effective altruism, so seeing this kind of sentiment is disheartening. (I don’t have strong views on the pledge itself.)
As I said to Jess Whittlestone, it’s worth being clear that the attitude that AlasdairGives expresses isn’t a narrow-minded rejection of people who favour other causes and more general EA types. If you read him charitably, he’s saying that he joined because he sincerely thought that GWWC-recommended charities were the ones which he should support, and that he wanted to express this rather than joining a club for EA types in general. Not that he favours a commitment to a narrow cause for its own sake.
I’m glad that you’re open to GWWC being a poverty-focused community, so this may not ultimately be an important disagreement :-)
I think that cause agnosticism is probably the most important novel ingredient of effective altruism, so seeing this kind of sentiment is disheartening. (I don’t have strong views on the pledge itself.)
One could be a GWWCer without being an effective altruist. Indeed, given that GWWC is focused on global poverty, a priori it seems to be inherently cause-partial.
I think you might mean prima facie? A priori is much stronger—it entails (perhaps absolute) knowledge, rather than a mere presupposition.
I am fairly cause agnostic to causes that have provable impact and don’t rely on highly contestable philosophical premises for their justification. I consider evidence of impact (making beliefs pay rent) to be central to that. There are lots of causes (for example—open borders, x-risk also) that I think may plausibly have a large impact but don’t have the evidence to show that my donations will pay rent in the way charities currently supported by GiveWell & GWWC do.
I don’t see how this is consistent with pledging to support the cause indefinitely. (I’m not objecting to GWWC being a poverty-focused community.)
It’s worth noting that your stance towards evidence appears to be unusual amongst modern philanthropists, and in particular the standard of “provable” seems both counterproductive and radical. I hope that this stance doesn’t become a standard part of what makes effective altruism distinctive.
I am glad that the open philanthropy project (formerly givewell labs) exists; given that foothold, I think that overreliance on measurement is a significantly less likely failure mode than it otherwise would be. Low epistemic standards and insufficient skepticism seem like more plausible failure modes, and I think we are on the same page concerning those issues. (I agree that more openness exacerbates these difficulties, though I am skeptical that an exclusive focus on poverty per se is too helpful.)
“It’s worth noting that your stance towards evidence appears to be unusual amongst modern philanthropists, and in particular the standard of “provable” seems both counterproductive and radical. I hope that this stance doesn’t become a standard part of what makes effective altruism distinctive.”
I think this stance towards evidence is pretty common in GiveWell donors (which far outnumber EAs) and I agree it’s not super common among general philanthropists (although pretty common in government health aid) circles but many EA concepts are not common among general philanthropists.
As I said to Jess Whittlestone, it’s worth being clear that the attitude that AlasdairGives expresses isn’t a narrow-minded rejection of people who favour other causes and more general EA types. If you read him charitably, he’s saying that he joined because he sincerely thought that GWWC-recommended charities were the ones which he should support, and that he wanted to express this rather than joining a club for EA types in general. Not that he favours a commitment to a narrow cause for its own sake.
I’m glad that you’re open to GWWC being a poverty-focused community, so this may not ultimately be an important disagreement :-)