Thanks for sticking your head out with this post, I’ve heard a lot of people express similar or stronger concerns but say they’re too frightened about prompting a pile-on (or in some cases organised and tactical retaliation). One thing some of these people have said is that internal knowledge at and research by CEA reveals unflattering facts about the issues you’ve raised, but that CEA hides this from impact evaluations and isn’t honest about it with donors. For example, people not donating and staying on the member lists, including prominent EAs.
I absolutely agree, like I suggested when complementing Dale for sticking his head out. (If that is the phrase? Google is ambiguous between “head” and “neck”.) I like to think I would state them myself, given the anonymity this forum allows, and I wouldn’t pay much social cost anyway as I don’t talk to EAs much any more now that I’m distant from the main EA centers. But like I said I’ve heard them second hand from a lot of people who wouldn’t want the sources to be guessed at. I’ll ask them if there’s anything I can post on their behalf in this thread.
The one thing I have heard from people other than these people is about some of the EAs who don’t donate but stay on the member lists. That was still second hand however, from other people who weren’t criticising but might not like the implication that they were. I’m not sure it’s right to name individuals in this venue either, beyond identifying classes like “employees or trustees of organisations”. Ambiguity about what counts as a donation vs. self-serving may also be at play.
Hi Impala, I’m sorry you feel this way! I assure you we’re actually all nice and not at all scary, so do feel free to contact us to discuss whatever you’d like.
I don’t know precisely what you’re talking about, but I don’t know of anyone you might be talking about as ‘prominent EAs’ who are both members of Giving What We Can and not donating. There are definitely people like Paul Christiano who support saving to donate later, because they think that the savings rate at the moment is unusually high and we’re currently in an unusually good position to learn more, so that donating in the future will be even more valuable than now. But Paul is not a member, for that very reason.
Like I said to Gregory, I am limited in what I can say without violating confidences, but I personally wouldn’t find saying other things scary if it’s anonymous. Is there an anonymous way to send messages to you which doesn’t reveal my email (which contains the username I use around the Web)?
Yes, fortunately I am both quite autistic and also don’t know many EA people in person.
isn’t honest about it with donors.
Yeah, there’s an obvious problem whereby organizations with ‘dirty secrets’ will tend not to share them. As a result, in investment we tend to work out what they key metrics are and then assume the worst if companies don’t release them. (Sovereigns can get a bit more leeway because they are incompetent and big). My understanding is that GiveWell uses a similar methodology of assuming the worst from the charities it looks at.
Thanks for sticking your head out with this post, I’ve heard a lot of people express similar or stronger concerns but say they’re too frightened about prompting a pile-on (or in some cases organised and tactical retaliation). One thing some of these people have said is that internal knowledge at and research by CEA reveals unflattering facts about the issues you’ve raised, but that CEA hides this from impact evaluations and isn’t honest about it with donors. For example, people not donating and staying on the member lists, including prominent EAs.
Concerns like these should be made publicly. If true, the wider community should know; if false, CEA should have the opportunity to refute them.
I absolutely agree, like I suggested when complementing Dale for sticking his head out. (If that is the phrase? Google is ambiguous between “head” and “neck”.) I like to think I would state them myself, given the anonymity this forum allows, and I wouldn’t pay much social cost anyway as I don’t talk to EAs much any more now that I’m distant from the main EA centers. But like I said I’ve heard them second hand from a lot of people who wouldn’t want the sources to be guessed at. I’ll ask them if there’s anything I can post on their behalf in this thread.
The one thing I have heard from people other than these people is about some of the EAs who don’t donate but stay on the member lists. That was still second hand however, from other people who weren’t criticising but might not like the implication that they were. I’m not sure it’s right to name individuals in this venue either, beyond identifying classes like “employees or trustees of organisations”. Ambiguity about what counts as a donation vs. self-serving may also be at play.
Hi Impala, I’m sorry you feel this way! I assure you we’re actually all nice and not at all scary, so do feel free to contact us to discuss whatever you’d like. I don’t know precisely what you’re talking about, but I don’t know of anyone you might be talking about as ‘prominent EAs’ who are both members of Giving What We Can and not donating. There are definitely people like Paul Christiano who support saving to donate later, because they think that the savings rate at the moment is unusually high and we’re currently in an unusually good position to learn more, so that donating in the future will be even more valuable than now. But Paul is not a member, for that very reason.
Like I said to Gregory, I am limited in what I can say without violating confidences, but I personally wouldn’t find saying other things scary if it’s anonymous. Is there an anonymous way to send messages to you which doesn’t reveal my email (which contains the username I use around the Web)?
Impala, you can trivially set up a new gmail account to send anonymous email.
Upvoted for morally admirable concern for people’s confidences.
This is starting to sound like it would be scary for me. I think Hauke may have made an anonymous feedback form for this purpose. I’ll ask him.
Yes, fortunately I am both quite autistic and also don’t know many EA people in person.
Yeah, there’s an obvious problem whereby organizations with ‘dirty secrets’ will tend not to share them. As a result, in investment we tend to work out what they key metrics are and then assume the worst if companies don’t release them. (Sovereigns can get a bit more leeway because they are incompetent and big). My understanding is that GiveWell uses a similar methodology of assuming the worst from the charities it looks at.
o.O