We can accomodate people who have low levels of emotional control (this is distinct from feeling strong emotions) and who are more ideological. However, while it makes the group more welcoming for those individuals, it makes it less welcoming for everyone else, so it’s not so clear that this results in the group being more welcoming overall like we were promised. In any case, it helps highlight how narrow the particular conception of inclusion put forward by Making Discussions Inclusive actually is.
1. I’d really recommend finding a different phrase than “low levels of emotional control”, which is both more insulting than seems ideal for conversations in an EA context and too vague to be a useful descriptor. (There are dozens of ways that “controlling one’s emotions” might be important within EA, and almost no one is “high” or “low” for all of them.)
2. “Less welcoming for everyone else” is too broad. Accommodating people who prefer some topics not be brought up certainly makes EA less welcoming for some people: Competing access needs are real, and a lot of people aren’t as comfortable with discussions where emotions aren’t as controlled, or where topics are somewhat limited.
But having “high emotional control” (again, I’d prefer a different term) doesn’t necessarily mean feeling unwelcome in discussions with people who are ideological or “less controlled” in some contexts.
One of the features I like most in a community is “people try to handle social interaction in a way that has the best average result for everyone”.
I’d consider “we figure out true things” to be the most important factor we should optimize for, and our discussions should aim for “figuring stuff out”. But that’s not the only important result; another factor is “we all get along and treat each other well”, because there’s value in EA being a well-functioning community of people who are happy to be around each other. If having a topic consistently come up in conversation is draining and isolating to some members of the community, I think it’s reasonable that we have a higher bar for that topic.
This doesn’t mean abandoning global poverty because people think it seems colonialist; it might mean deciding that someone’s Mormon manifesto doesn’t pass the bar for “deserves careful, point-by-point discussion”. That isn’t very inclusive to the manifesto’s author, but it seems very likely to increase EA’s overall inclusiveness.
This is one of those circumstances where changing the phrase would likely mean avoiding the issue. I agree that we don’t want people to be unfeeling automatons and that there are circumstances when expressing even “negative” emotions like anger can be positive. At the same time, the idea that different people have different levels of emotional control seems to be a very useful model, even if it doesn’t perfectly describe reality (ie. context-dependence). You’ve already noted that some behaviours put a burden on most people—having low levels of emotional control/being ideological falls inside this category.
I’ll note one argument that you could have put forward: possibly low levels of emotional control is correlated with positive characteristics, such as creativity or the ability to be enthusiastic or authentic. So perhaps a filter on this quality would be net negative.
I’m not sure what you mean by ‘low emotional control.’ Are you talking about people who can’t control their reactions, or who can but find it tiring, or who can but choose not to?
I’m very emotional, but if someone’s rude to me in the context of a government negotiation, no one would be able to tell I even heard the insult (depending—in some contexts it’s strategic to assert yourself and set boundaries).
If someone’s rude to me in a social context, though, they’re going to get an earful! I don’t get paid to take your crap, so when someone insults me, either they’re going to hear about it or I’m going to leave.
So… Is that a low level of emotional control, or a high level of emotional control? What exactly are you referring to?
We can accomodate people who have low levels of emotional control (this is distinct from feeling strong emotions) and who are more ideological. However, while it makes the group more welcoming for those individuals, it makes it less welcoming for everyone else, so it’s not so clear that this results in the group being more welcoming overall like we were promised. In any case, it helps highlight how narrow the particular conception of inclusion put forward by Making Discussions Inclusive actually is.
1. I’d really recommend finding a different phrase than “low levels of emotional control”, which is both more insulting than seems ideal for conversations in an EA context and too vague to be a useful descriptor. (There are dozens of ways that “controlling one’s emotions” might be important within EA, and almost no one is “high” or “low” for all of them.)
2. “Less welcoming for everyone else” is too broad. Accommodating people who prefer some topics not be brought up certainly makes EA less welcoming for some people: Competing access needs are real, and a lot of people aren’t as comfortable with discussions where emotions aren’t as controlled, or where topics are somewhat limited.
But having “high emotional control” (again, I’d prefer a different term) doesn’t necessarily mean feeling unwelcome in discussions with people who are ideological or “less controlled” in some contexts.
One of the features I like most in a community is “people try to handle social interaction in a way that has the best average result for everyone”.
I’d consider “we figure out true things” to be the most important factor we should optimize for, and our discussions should aim for “figuring stuff out”. But that’s not the only important result; another factor is “we all get along and treat each other well”, because there’s value in EA being a well-functioning community of people who are happy to be around each other. If having a topic consistently come up in conversation is draining and isolating to some members of the community, I think it’s reasonable that we have a higher bar for that topic.
This doesn’t mean abandoning global poverty because people think it seems colonialist; it might mean deciding that someone’s Mormon manifesto doesn’t pass the bar for “deserves careful, point-by-point discussion”. That isn’t very inclusive to the manifesto’s author, but it seems very likely to increase EA’s overall inclusiveness.
This is one of those circumstances where changing the phrase would likely mean avoiding the issue. I agree that we don’t want people to be unfeeling automatons and that there are circumstances when expressing even “negative” emotions like anger can be positive. At the same time, the idea that different people have different levels of emotional control seems to be a very useful model, even if it doesn’t perfectly describe reality (ie. context-dependence). You’ve already noted that some behaviours put a burden on most people—having low levels of emotional control/being ideological falls inside this category.
I’ll note one argument that you could have put forward: possibly low levels of emotional control is correlated with positive characteristics, such as creativity or the ability to be enthusiastic or authentic. So perhaps a filter on this quality would be net negative.
I’m not sure what you mean by ‘low emotional control.’ Are you talking about people who can’t control their reactions, or who can but find it tiring, or who can but choose not to?
I’m very emotional, but if someone’s rude to me in the context of a government negotiation, no one would be able to tell I even heard the insult (depending—in some contexts it’s strategic to assert yourself and set boundaries).
If someone’s rude to me in a social context, though, they’re going to get an earful! I don’t get paid to take your crap, so when someone insults me, either they’re going to hear about it or I’m going to leave.
So… Is that a low level of emotional control, or a high level of emotional control? What exactly are you referring to?