I ignored the first footnote because it’s not in the posts’ remit, according to the post itself:
Additionally, the scope is limited to minimalist axiologies that are based on experientialist accounts of welfare (cf. van der Deijl, 2021). In other words, I assume that the welfare of any given being cannot be affected by things that do not enter their experience, and thus set aside views such as preference-based axiologies that imply extra-experientialism.
If you assume this limited scope, I think the answer to the second question is “yes” (and that the post agrees with this). I agree that things change if you expand the scope to other minimalist axiologies. It’s unfortunate that the quote I selected implies “all minimalist axiologies” but I really was trying to talk about this post.
I shouldn’t have called it “the main point”, I should have said something like “the main point made in response to the two questions I mentioned”, which is what I actually meant.
I agree that there is more detail about why the author thinks you shouldn’t be worried about it that I did not summarize. I still think it is accurate to say that the author’s main response to question 1 and 2, as written in Section 2, is “the answers are yes, but actually that’s fine and you shouldn’t be worried about it”, with the point about cessation implications being one argument for that view.
Your comment above makes all sense regarding the literal questions (even if not the implicit worries that I intended to respond to); thanks for elaborating. :)
Still, I would not reduce my (theoretical) response to the implicit worries all the way down to “yes, but actually that’s fine and you shouldn’t be worried about it”. The “yes” is buried in the middle in 2.3 because it’s not the end of the theoretical response. After that, the following sections 2.4–2.6 still address a lot of points that may be relevant for our potential intuitions (such as worries) about endorsing cessation even in theory.
For example, I certainly feel worried myself about endorsing cessation of the ‘near-perfect paradise’ (even in theory), but I don’t tell myself that I “shouldn’t be worried about it”. Instead, I note (as I do in 2.4) that it seems perfectly fine to both endorse experientialist minimalist consequentialism in theory and to simultaneously deeply account for all the practical reasons that we have to side less with the relatively unpopular ideal of emptiness and more with the equal* and more popular ideal of untroubled lives.
(* equal for minimalists.)
Regarding worried intuitions, I of course also encourage people to compare whether they feel more worried about the (theoretical) minimalist cessation implications than about the (likewise theoretical) implications of offsetting views presented in 2.5. The latter strike me and many others as far more worrisome, so I’d prefer to also highlight that contrast as far as the worries (and not only the literal questions) are concerned.
In any case, I really appreciate that you read my post even if we might have different intuitions about these thought experiments. :)
It’s unfortunate that the quote I selected implies “all minimalist axiologies” but I really was trying to talk about this post.
Perhaps it would be good to add an edit on that as well? E.g. “The author agrees that the answers to these questions are ‘yes’ (for the restricted class of minimalist axiologies he explores here).” :)
(The restriction is relevant, not least since a number of EAs do seem to holdnon-experientialist minimalist views.)
I ignored the first footnote because it’s not in the posts’ remit, according to the post itself:
If you assume this limited scope, I think the answer to the second question is “yes” (and that the post agrees with this). I agree that things change if you expand the scope to other minimalist axiologies. It’s unfortunate that the quote I selected implies “all minimalist axiologies” but I really was trying to talk about this post.
I shouldn’t have called it “the main point”, I should have said something like “the main point made in response to the two questions I mentioned”, which is what I actually meant.
I agree that there is more detail about why the author thinks you shouldn’t be worried about it that I did not summarize. I still think it is accurate to say that the author’s main response to question 1 and 2, as written in Section 2, is “the answers are yes, but actually that’s fine and you shouldn’t be worried about it”, with the point about cessation implications being one argument for that view.
(Continued)
Your comment above makes all sense regarding the literal questions (even if not the implicit worries that I intended to respond to); thanks for elaborating. :)
Still, I would not reduce my (theoretical) response to the implicit worries all the way down to “yes, but actually that’s fine and you shouldn’t be worried about it”. The “yes” is buried in the middle in 2.3 because it’s not the end of the theoretical response. After that, the following sections 2.4–2.6 still address a lot of points that may be relevant for our potential intuitions (such as worries) about endorsing cessation even in theory.
For example, I certainly feel worried myself about endorsing cessation of the ‘near-perfect paradise’ (even in theory), but I don’t tell myself that I “shouldn’t be worried about it”. Instead, I note (as I do in 2.4) that it seems perfectly fine to both endorse experientialist minimalist consequentialism in theory and to simultaneously deeply account for all the practical reasons that we have to side less with the relatively unpopular ideal of emptiness and more with the equal* and more popular ideal of untroubled lives.
(* equal for minimalists.)
Regarding worried intuitions, I of course also encourage people to compare whether they feel more worried about the (theoretical) minimalist cessation implications than about the (likewise theoretical) implications of offsetting views presented in 2.5. The latter strike me and many others as far more worrisome, so I’d prefer to also highlight that contrast as far as the worries (and not only the literal questions) are concerned.
In any case, I really appreciate that you read my post even if we might have different intuitions about these thought experiments. :)
Perhaps it would be good to add an edit on that as well? E.g. “The author agrees that the answers to these questions are ‘yes’ (for the restricted class of minimalist axiologies he explores here).” :)
(The restriction is relevant, not least since a number of EAs do seem to hold non-experientialist minimalist views.)
Sure, done.