I remain skeptical of how much this type of research will influence EA-minded decisions, e.g. how many people would switch donations from farmed animal welfare campaigns to humane insecticide campaigns if they increased their estimate of insect sentience by 50%? But I still think the EA community should be allocating substantially more resources to it than they are now, and you seem to be approaching it in a smart way, so I hope you get funding!
I’m especially excited about the impact of this research on general concern for invertebrate sentience (e.g. establishing norms that there are at least some smart humans are actively working on insect welfare policy) and on helping humans better consider artificial sentience when important tech policy decisions are made (e.g. on AI ethics).
My prior here is brain size weighting for suffering, which means insects are similar importance to humans currently. But I would guess they would be less tractable than humans (though obviously far more neglected). So I think if there could be compelling evidence that we should be weighting insects 5% as much as humans, that would be an enormous update and make invertebrates the dominant consideration in the near future.
Based on Georgia Ray’s estimates, it looks like there are > 100x more neurons in soil arthropods than in humans.
Soil arthropods:
Using this, we get 1E22-1E23 neurons from large arthropods and 6E22 neurons from smaller arthropods, for a total of 6E22-2E23 neurons in soil arthropods.
Shouldn’t we weigh neurons by level of graph/central complexity? (eg neurons by how “central” they are to the system). Many neurons simply don’t factor into evaluations of hedons (even motor and sensory neurons)
Yeah, even the information for total number of neurons is absent for many invertebrates. More specific information like that would rarely be available.
Thanks! However, neurons in smaller organisms tend to be smaller. So I think the actual brain mass of humans would be similar to the land arthropods and the nematodes. Fish are larger organisms, so it does look like the brain mass of fish would be significantly larger than humans. There is the question of whether a larger neuron could provide more value or dis-value than a smaller neuron. If it is the same, then neuron count would be the relevant number.
I remain skeptical of how much this type of research will influence EA-minded decisions, e.g. how many people would switch donations from farmed animal welfare campaigns to humane insecticide campaigns if they increased their estimate of insect sentience by 50%? But I still think the EA community should be allocating substantially more resources to it than they are now, and you seem to be approaching it in a smart way, so I hope you get funding!
I’m especially excited about the impact of this research on general concern for invertebrate sentience (e.g. establishing norms that there are at least some smart humans are actively working on insect welfare policy) and on helping humans better consider artificial sentience when important tech policy decisions are made (e.g. on AI ethics).
My prior here is brain size weighting for suffering, which means insects are similar importance to humans currently. But I would guess they would be less tractable than humans (though obviously far more neglected). So I think if there could be compelling evidence that we should be weighting insects 5% as much as humans, that would be an enormous update and make invertebrates the dominant consideration in the near future.
Based on Georgia Ray’s estimates, it looks like there are > 100x more neurons in soil arthropods than in humans.
Soil arthropods:
Humans:
Shouldn’t we weigh neurons by level of graph/central complexity? (eg neurons by how “central” they are to the system). Many neurons simply don’t factor into evaluations of hedons (even motor and sensory neurons)
I agree, but I’m not sure how available this info has been, maybe until recently. This might be useful approximation:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_by_number_of_neurons#Sensory-associative_structure
Number of synapses could also be relevant, but I’d assume this data is even harder to find.
Yeah, even the information for total number of neurons is absent for many invertebrates. More specific information like that would rarely be available.
Thanks! However, neurons in smaller organisms tend to be smaller. So I think the actual brain mass of humans would be similar to the land arthropods and the nematodes. Fish are larger organisms, so it does look like the brain mass of fish would be significantly larger than humans. There is the question of whether a larger neuron could provide more value or dis-value than a smaller neuron. If it is the same, then neuron count would be the relevant number.