and the highly controversial rationalist Michael Vassar
Was Vassar a speaker or just an attendee?
In addition to the cult stuff you mentioned, when the time article on sexual harassment in rationalist communities came out, many responses on the article claimed Vassar had been accused of multiple instances of sexual harassment or assault and banned from multiple communities. I got the impression he was no longer around, and am disturbed that he would be allowed in such a conference.
Edit: see the edit in the Op, vassar did not actually attend, but apparently he could have if he wanted to. I would advise everyone to not let this guy attend your conferences.
he bought a ticket to summer camp; we refunded it ~immediately and uninvited him from the event.
after that, and before (or possibly during?) manifest, i made the decision to, conditional on his having bought a ticket, allow him to participate in the event. a few clarifications:
i made this decision, not the others on the manifest team; i bear sole responsibility/deserve blame-in-expectation if it was wrong.[1]
i made this decision under quite a lot of stress/pressure, after agonizing about it for a couple days, and with way less information than i would’ve liked; i basically didn’t know who vassar was prior to summer camp, and had like an hour or two in total to do research/talk to people/learn about his behavior/etc.
i’m quite unsure if this is a decision i reflectively endorse, and if you have information that might sway my decision about his attending future events in either direction, i’d love to hear — especially now that i actually have the time/attention to do look into it, rather than being amidst a 600-person event i’m running. feel free to reach out to me privately, if you’d prefer.
ultimately, vassar did not buy a ticket to manifest.
or, like, conditional on my decision having been a mistake, the team bears responsibility for setting up systems such that i was enabled to make this decision. but i’d disagree with that (i think that our systems for deciding who to uninvite were pretty sound, generally), and i think i deserve all of the blame to the extent that there is blame deserved.
I’m confused how come he was first uninvited, and then you later decided to allow him to participate? Did he buy a summer camp ticket, get uninvited, and then you decided to make up your mind for what would happen if he also were to buy a Manifest ticket?
He was 86′ed from Summer Camp; later on staff had a discussion of what they would do if, hypothetically, he bought a ticket to Manifest. Saul had final say and decided Vassar would not be banned. In the end, the hypothetical was never tested, as Vassar did not attempt to purchase a Manifest ticket.
I read Saul’s comment to be discussing two different events. 1 event he was uninvited to, the other he would have been able to attend if he would have so wished.
can you say more about how you approached this decision and what seemed like the key considerations for you? I’m interested in whether you were primarily approaching it as something about his views, or about his interpersonal behaviour and alleged abuse, and given your decision to allow him, whether it was “I don’t think the allegations of misbehaviour are credible enough to act on”, or “even if the allegations were true, they wouldn’t constitute reason to exclude him”, or some third thing.
I appreciate this is probably a stressful request, and I don’t necessarily think I’m entitled to the answers, but it’s something I think about a lot so I’m really interested in hearing how people are approaching it.
I am not sure if he actually took part in the event, but there were people involved with him that were present who said he might be dropping by and that he had bought a ticket
Note that at this point we only have indirect word that he bought a ticket. Also note that anyone can buy a ticket, and if his ticket was cancelled by Manifold (which is probably the thing you want), we would not hear about that directly.
Of course, information can emerge that he actually did attend.
Tl;dr: Vassar bought a ticket to Summer Camp, got uninvited to it, then the decision was reversed to allow him to participate in Manifest, and he ultimately didn’t end up participating. Editing the main post to reflect this.
Was Vassar a speaker or just an attendee?
In addition to the cult stuff you mentioned, when the time article on sexual harassment in rationalist communities came out, many responses on the article claimed Vassar had been accused of multiple instances of sexual harassment or assault and banned from multiple communities. I got the impression he was no longer around, and am disturbed that he would be allowed in such a conference.
Edit: see the edit in the Op, vassar did not actually attend, but apparently he could have if he wanted to. I would advise everyone to not let this guy attend your conferences.
neither; he did not attend manifest.
edit: see jonas’ important question below, and my response. i think they both provide pretty important context.
Would he have been allowed to attend if he wanted to? (I think you really need to have a process to filter out people like him.)
good question, jonas; thanks for asking it!
he bought a ticket to summer camp; we refunded it ~immediately and uninvited him from the event.
after that, and before (or possibly during?) manifest, i made the decision to, conditional on his having bought a ticket, allow him to participate in the event. a few clarifications:
i made this decision, not the others on the manifest team; i bear sole responsibility/deserve blame-in-expectation if it was wrong.[1]
i made this decision under quite a lot of stress/pressure, after agonizing about it for a couple days, and with way less information than i would’ve liked; i basically didn’t know who vassar was prior to summer camp, and had like an hour or two in total to do research/talk to people/learn about his behavior/etc.
i’m quite unsure if this is a decision i reflectively endorse, and if you have information that might sway my decision about his attending future events in either direction, i’d love to hear — especially now that i actually have the time/attention to do look into it, rather than being amidst a 600-person event i’m running. feel free to reach out to me privately, if you’d prefer.
ultimately, vassar did not buy a ticket to manifest.
or, like, conditional on my decision having been a mistake, the team bears responsibility for setting up systems such that i was enabled to make this decision. but i’d disagree with that (i think that our systems for deciding who to uninvite were pretty sound, generally), and i think i deserve all of the blame to the extent that there is blame deserved.
I’m confused how come he was first uninvited, and then you later decided to allow him to participate? Did he buy a summer camp ticket, get uninvited, and then you decided to make up your mind for what would happen if he also were to buy a Manifest ticket?
He was 86′ed from Summer Camp; later on staff had a discussion of what they would do if, hypothetically, he bought a ticket to Manifest. Saul had final say and decided Vassar would not be banned. In the end, the hypothetical was never tested, as Vassar did not attempt to purchase a Manifest ticket.
I read Saul’s comment to be discussing two different events. 1 event he was uninvited to, the other he would have been able to attend if he would have so wished.
can you say more about how you approached this decision and what seemed like the key considerations for you? I’m interested in whether you were primarily approaching it as something about his views, or about his interpersonal behaviour and alleged abuse, and given your decision to allow him, whether it was “I don’t think the allegations of misbehaviour are credible enough to act on”, or “even if the allegations were true, they wouldn’t constitute reason to exclude him”, or some third thing.
I appreciate this is probably a stressful request, and I don’t necessarily think I’m entitled to the answers, but it’s something I think about a lot so I’m really interested in hearing how people are approaching it.
Note that at this point we only have indirect word that he bought a ticket. Also note that anyone can buy a ticket, and if his ticket was cancelled by Manifold (which is probably the thing you want), we would not hear about that directly. Of course, information can emerge that he actually did attend.
Here is Saul on Vassar attendance: https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/MHenxzydsNgRzSMHY/my-experience-at-the-controversial-manifest-2024?commentId=vWLJo6GQ5sFbbbxch
Tl;dr: Vassar bought a ticket to Summer Camp, got uninvited to it, then the decision was reversed to allow him to participate in Manifest, and he ultimately didn’t end up participating. Editing the main post to reflect this.