I recommend expanding the discussion in the “Things to be careful of” section. In particular, it seems worthwhile to estimate the impact of people in EA not having as much runway as they could have.
You mentioned that some people took The Pledge and did not follow through. It’s important to also consider the downsides in situations where people do follow through despite regretting having taken The Pledge. People in EA are selected for scrupulousness which probably correlates strongly with pledge-keeping. As an aside, maybe it’s worth adding to The Pledge (or The Pledge 2.0?) some text such that the obligation is conditional on some things (e.g. no unanticipated developments that would make the person regret taking the pledge).
Thanks Ofer. What do you think about changing this wording on the guide:
“Some people might be less inclined to do direct work if they take a pledge.” → “Some people might be less inclined to do direct work (due to “lock-in” or not having enough runway/financial stability) if they take a pledge.”
“It’s important for people to consider this seriously. Only they can know how they will feel.” → “It’s important for people to consider this seriously, understand their financial situation, and under what conditions it is best to resign.”
In terms of the wording of the pledge itself, I lean towards keeping it as is while including the FAQ which includes information about resigning from the pledge (we make promises all the time that have implied conditionality, such as the example about picking up your niece from school, and marriages which most people agree should end if that is best, but that’s rarely in the vows).
In cases where someone is particularly scrupulous to a point of detriment I would recommend either not pledging or if they did, to take a Try Giving pledge and renewing it on a regular basis.
I’m very open to further discussion on these points.
Regarding the first potential change: It seems to me helpful (consider also “inclined” → “inclined/able”). Regarding the second one, I was not sure at first that “resign” here means ceasing to follow through after having taken the pledge.
For both changes, consider wording it such that it’s clear that we should consider the runway / financial situation factors over a person’s entire life (rather than just their current plans and financial situation) and the substantial uncertainties that are involved.
we make promises all the time that have implied conditionality, such as the example about picking up your niece from school, and marriages which most people agree should end if that is best, but that’s rarely in the vows
The niece scenario seems quite different from that of the pledge. To recap the scenario:
If you promise to pick up your niece from school and are hit by a car it’s not terrible for you to break that promise because you’re in the ICU.
If you’re in the ICU, it is quite possibly basically impossible for you to pick up your niece! If you’re on oxygen support, or have a damaged spine, or many of the other conditions that warrant ICU, attempting to drive to her school might literally kill you, leaving her still unpicked up. If you’re on strong painkillers you might still be able to physically operate the car, but your judgement is so impaired that driving would impose an unacceptably large risk on third parties, violating their rights. Or you might just be in a coma and unable to do anything at all. This seems quite dissimilar to the case of people wishing to get out of their pledge commitment. My impression is these people generally much more mundane motivations, closer to “I don’t want to” than “I cannot”. I think it is reasonable to infer a silent “unless it is impossible” into a promise, but not a “unless I change my mind”—that would invalidate the entire point of the pledge.
Similarly, I strongly disagree about the marriage example. The classic marriage oath clearly states that it is meant to be until death, explicitly clarifies that a long list of conditions are not sufficient grounds for its end, and brings together a huge group of witnesses.
To have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death do us part.
It’s hard to imagine how people could make much clearer their intentions to enter into a permanently binding contract, as was enshrined in law for much of its history.
Nor do I agree that fidelity to promises is a problem as you imply:
In cases where someone is particularly scrupulous to a point of detriment
The idea that someone should fulfil their commitments is not a detriment or a problem. On the contrary, being a trustworthy person yields many advantages. Being able to credibly commit yourself can give others the confidence to act in beneficial ways that they might choose not to if they were afraid you would screw them over later. It also allows us to bind ourselves, protecting ourselves from future moments of weakness.
Thanks for the input. I’m sorry I’m not entirely following what you are suggesting here.
I’d be very happy to take input on what you would suggest.
The essence of the pledge is to be a useful commitment device that helps people to stick to a commitment knowing that they’ve promised it to themselves and also to others (e.g. by taking a public pledge where your name is alongside others).
However, we don’t want the commitment to be seen as so high that no one would take it on a slight chance that the best thing for themselves and the world would be that they resign.
I completely agree that broken commitments are bad (as laid out in the document), but shying away from commitments because there’s a chance they might be broken is also bad.
I’m very open to any suggestions you have for how to communicate that.
In regards to the “scrupulous to a point of detriment” I’m referring to cases where scrupulousness is detrimental (i.e. Scrupulosity, OCD). If someone has that propensity it is probably better to not make a more ambitious and narrow commitment that there’s a chance they might need to resign from (and instead make a softer commitment or one with very very clear caveats).
Hi Luke,
I recommend expanding the discussion in the “Things to be careful of” section. In particular, it seems worthwhile to estimate the impact of people in EA not having as much runway as they could have.
You mentioned that some people took The Pledge and did not follow through. It’s important to also consider the downsides in situations where people do follow through despite regretting having taken The Pledge. People in EA are selected for scrupulousness which probably correlates strongly with pledge-keeping. As an aside, maybe it’s worth adding to The Pledge (or The Pledge 2.0?) some text such that the obligation is conditional on some things (e.g. no unanticipated developments that would make the person regret taking the pledge).
Thanks Ofer. What do you think about changing this wording on the guide:
“Some people might be less inclined to do direct work if they take a pledge.” → “Some people might be less inclined to do direct work (due to “lock-in” or not having enough runway/financial stability) if they take a pledge.”
“It’s important for people to consider this seriously. Only they can know how they will feel.” → “It’s important for people to consider this seriously, understand their financial situation, and under what conditions it is best to resign.”
In terms of the wording of the pledge itself, I lean towards keeping it as is while including the FAQ which includes information about resigning from the pledge (we make promises all the time that have implied conditionality, such as the example about picking up your niece from school, and marriages which most people agree should end if that is best, but that’s rarely in the vows).
In cases where someone is particularly scrupulous to a point of detriment I would recommend either not pledging or if they did, to take a Try Giving pledge and renewing it on a regular basis.
I’m very open to further discussion on these points.
Regarding the first potential change: It seems to me helpful (consider also “inclined” → “inclined/able”). Regarding the second one, I was not sure at first that “resign” here means ceasing to follow through after having taken the pledge.
For both changes, consider wording it such that it’s clear that we should consider the runway / financial situation factors over a person’s entire life (rather than just their current plans and financial situation) and the substantial uncertainties that are involved.
The niece scenario seems quite different from that of the pledge. To recap the scenario:
If you’re in the ICU, it is quite possibly basically impossible for you to pick up your niece! If you’re on oxygen support, or have a damaged spine, or many of the other conditions that warrant ICU, attempting to drive to her school might literally kill you, leaving her still unpicked up. If you’re on strong painkillers you might still be able to physically operate the car, but your judgement is so impaired that driving would impose an unacceptably large risk on third parties, violating their rights. Or you might just be in a coma and unable to do anything at all. This seems quite dissimilar to the case of people wishing to get out of their pledge commitment. My impression is these people generally much more mundane motivations, closer to “I don’t want to” than “I cannot”. I think it is reasonable to infer a silent “unless it is impossible” into a promise, but not a “unless I change my mind”—that would invalidate the entire point of the pledge.
Similarly, I strongly disagree about the marriage example. The classic marriage oath clearly states that it is meant to be until death, explicitly clarifies that a long list of conditions are not sufficient grounds for its end, and brings together a huge group of witnesses.
It’s hard to imagine how people could make much clearer their intentions to enter into a permanently binding contract, as was enshrined in law for much of its history.
Nor do I agree that fidelity to promises is a problem as you imply:
The idea that someone should fulfil their commitments is not a detriment or a problem. On the contrary, being a trustworthy person yields many advantages. Being able to credibly commit yourself can give others the confidence to act in beneficial ways that they might choose not to if they were afraid you would screw them over later. It also allows us to bind ourselves, protecting ourselves from future moments of weakness.
Hi Larks,
Thanks for the input. I’m sorry I’m not entirely following what you are suggesting here.
I’d be very happy to take input on what you would suggest.
The essence of the pledge is to be a useful commitment device that helps people to stick to a commitment knowing that they’ve promised it to themselves and also to others (e.g. by taking a public pledge where your name is alongside others).
However, we don’t want the commitment to be seen as so high that no one would take it on a slight chance that the best thing for themselves and the world would be that they resign.
I completely agree that broken commitments are bad (as laid out in the document), but shying away from commitments because there’s a chance they might be broken is also bad.
I’m very open to any suggestions you have for how to communicate that.
In regards to the “scrupulous to a point of detriment” I’m referring to cases where scrupulousness is detrimental (i.e. Scrupulosity, OCD). If someone has that propensity it is probably better to not make a more ambitious and narrow commitment that there’s a chance they might need to resign from (and instead make a softer commitment or one with very very clear caveats).
Thanks again 😀