To be clear, I definitely do think you take women’s sadness seriously.
Also I certainly hope nothing I’ve done has implied that you should agree or shut up—that’s not my intention at all.
I really do think benefit of the doubt is important. If you misphrase an idea and then concede that you misphrased it, I will understand that and not change my respect for you. I misphrase ideas all the time.
I mean I’m not sure I take women’s sadness seriously enough. That’s part of the whole complexity here. This isn’t just an abstract discussion for me and I guess many others, it’s a discussion about my actual actions and if I change my mind my behaviour changes, sometimes significantly (I definitely flirted with fewer people at EAG after parties as a result of this).
I know that’s not your intention, but I want to flag that that’s how it feels. I don’t think Emma could say anything that would get her cancelled here. Me? No I’m pretty sure I could easily earn scorn if I’m not careful.
As for misphrasing, I agree, though there is a discussion on twitter that suggests screenshots of the forum are fair game. I disagree—while public, this is a different kind of public than twitter. If screenshots are fair game then rephrasing or retracting is out the window.
I think your feelings are genuine, but I’m unfortunately not sure what to do about them besides what I’m already doing, which is try to be empathetic and welcoming.
~
there is a discussion on twitter that suggests screenshots of the forum are fair game. I disagree—while public, this is a different kind of public than twitter. If screenshots are fair game then rephrasing or retracting is out the window.
I had a conversation with someone that went like this:
Them—“Man, the EA Forum is like if all of EA had a water cooler to chat by”
Me, sarcastic—“Great, yeah, real smart of us to have a water cooler that is surrounded by journalists”
I think this gets at an important point that is pretty stifling / chilling, since the norms we’ve cultivated may not be upheld in other venues. I think it’s important to have these conversations in public so everyone can hear, but there are real large costs to that.
Another option: maybe have a moderated conversation in an offline space and then edit it before publishing?
I mean, in some sense I revel in this. If we can figure out how to do this discourse better than we can manage something that the rest of the internet can’t. Perhaps we can have men feel comfortable to admit failures in public without destroying them for it but taking responsibility and growing and staying part of the community. What a world.
To be clear, I definitely do think you take women’s sadness seriously.
Also I certainly hope nothing I’ve done has implied that you should agree or shut up—that’s not my intention at all.
I really do think benefit of the doubt is important. If you misphrase an idea and then concede that you misphrased it, I will understand that and not change my respect for you. I misphrase ideas all the time.
I mean I’m not sure I take women’s sadness seriously enough. That’s part of the whole complexity here. This isn’t just an abstract discussion for me and I guess many others, it’s a discussion about my actual actions and if I change my mind my behaviour changes, sometimes significantly (I definitely flirted with fewer people at EAG after parties as a result of this).
I know that’s not your intention, but I want to flag that that’s how it feels. I don’t think Emma could say anything that would get her cancelled here. Me? No I’m pretty sure I could easily earn scorn if I’m not careful.
As for misphrasing, I agree, though there is a discussion on twitter that suggests screenshots of the forum are fair game. I disagree—while public, this is a different kind of public than twitter. If screenshots are fair game then rephrasing or retracting is out the window.
I think your feelings are genuine, but I’m unfortunately not sure what to do about them besides what I’m already doing, which is try to be empathetic and welcoming.
~
I had a conversation with someone that went like this:
Them—“Man, the EA Forum is like if all of EA had a water cooler to chat by”
Me, sarcastic—“Great, yeah, real smart of us to have a water cooler that is surrounded by journalists”
I think this gets at an important point that is pretty stifling / chilling, since the norms we’ve cultivated may not be upheld in other venues. I think it’s important to have these conversations in public so everyone can hear, but there are real large costs to that.
Another option: maybe have a moderated conversation in an offline space and then edit it before publishing?
I mean, in some sense I revel in this. If we can figure out how to do this discourse better than we can manage something that the rest of the internet can’t. Perhaps we can have men feel comfortable to admit failures in public without destroying them for it but taking responsibility and growing and staying part of the community. What a world.
Yes, it may not be a good idea.