It’s 10k plus travel plus housing plus co-working space, so it sounds like other than food basically the whole 10k would be disposable income. Potentially the housing provides food also. I’m not sure what cost of living is like in the Bahamas but that hardly sounds like “really low pay”
Yep definitely not intended to impose a financial strain on anyone! Since travel, housing, and office space will be paid for, we intended $10k as a reasonable amount for expenses above that. But it wasn’t chosen super carefully, so we can run some numbers and increase it if it seems like more will be helpful.
I saw the same chart when I was doing my own (light) research, but I’m more inclined to trust my close friend’s anecdotes than a random website’s data, sorry.
The first link compares Nassau to the US as a whole. But the Bay Area is much more expensive than the average American city.
The second link compares Nassau to New York City. But food in the Bay Area is more expensive than in NYC. The comparison between Nassau and SF from the same website shows food to be equally expensive in both cities:
Sure but the former is closer to what would be relevant to consumption habits for people coming from America or presumably Europe in a <6 month fellowship, though maybe if there are a lot of qualified applicants from other Carribean islands my picture is off.
Sure happy to make a 1:1 bet that a survey of FTX EA fellows from the Bay Area to the Bahamas (excluding myself if I decided to go) will find that the average person would consider their meals not covered by FTX to be on average more expensive in the Bahamas than their prior meals in the Bay Area.
You made a positive claim (assuming you’re taking that website literally) that it’s noticeably cheaper, I made a positive claim that it’s noticeably more expensive. 1:1 bet in the middle seems fair.
How much probability density do you put in that range?
Hmm 14 hours ago I’d have said maybe 60%, but now I’m down to 35% because you seemed confident and maybe looked into it more than I had.
Yeah, that’s fair. Sorry if my comment came across as overly confrontational.
On reflection, getting an accurate sense of the costs of food in Nassau is probably quite useful for many FTX Fellowship applicants, whereas I doubt many are interested in seeing you and I arrange the terms of a public bet. So although I was the one who proposed the bet and am still interested in it (and am happy to go up to $250 and rely on a survey of FTX EA fellows as you suggested), I am now more inclined to just share my estimates and see how much they disagree with yours or those of others, and perhaps explore the reasons for that disagreement.
So, without doing basically any research, and relying solely on the link I provided above and the links Stefan later shared, I’d say my best estimate is that food in Nassau is roughly as expensive as food in the Bay Area. Again very roughly, I’d say there’s a 50% chance that food in Nassau is between 25% less expensive and 25% more expensive as in the Bay, and maybe a 90% chance that it’s less than 50% more expensive. This doesn’t take into account the fact that you seem to trust your friend’s estimates, which may cause me to update a bit in your direction.
Thanks for your estimates! I’m also sorry if I appeared confrontational, but upon reflection I appreciate the pushback!
Taking a step back, isn’t this all a bit weird? Given that there’s going to only be a projected 10-25 fellows, and that a CEO of a billion-dollar trading firm is personally spending time to evaluate applications, I really don’t think it makes sense, taking the broad view, for people who get the offer to decide not to go due to financial costs.
But of course that’s the “view from above”, and individual EAs may be substantially liquidity or otherwise constrained. Hopefully this will not deter people from applying, and accepted fellows can provide feedback on whether they think the location would be a financial hardship, and I’m optimistic that either FTX or the rest of the EA movement can figure this out.
Isn’t housing more relevant than groceries? A typical household spends about 3x as much on housing than on all consumption goods combined (IIRC). And that site says housing in Nassau is a lot cheaper than in SF.
It’s 10k plus travel plus housing plus co-working space, so it sounds like other than food basically the whole 10k would be disposable income. Potentially the housing provides food also. I’m not sure what cost of living is like in the Bahamas but that hardly sounds like “really low pay”
Yep definitely not intended to impose a financial strain on anyone! Since travel, housing, and office space will be paid for, we intended $10k as a reasonable amount for expenses above that. But it wasn’t chosen super carefully, so we can run some numbers and increase it if it seems like more will be helpful.
My friend said that prices in the Bahamas for things like groceries and restaurants were ~20-50% higher than the Bay Area, which I did not expect.
Mmh, that doesn’t seem accurate:
Groceries Prices in Nassau are 21.76% lower than in San Francisco, CA
Restaurant Prices in Nassau are 5.53% lower than in San Francisco, CA
(Though these figures may still be higher than some people were expecting.)
I saw the same chart when I was doing my own (light) research, but I’m more inclined to trust my close friend’s anecdotes than a random website’s data, sorry.
Possibly ex-pats have different consumption baskets to the locals those statistics are measuring.
Two other estimates (I don’t know how accurate they are) say the Bahamas/Nassau is overall cheaper than the US/NYC, but that food is more expensive.
Bahamas vs US: Cost of Living, Salary & Prices comparison (livingcost.org)
Nassau is 18% cheaper than New York City. Nov 2021 Cost of Living. (expatistan.com)
The first link compares Nassau to the US as a whole. But the Bay Area is much more expensive than the average American city.
The second link compares Nassau to New York City. But food in the Bay Area is more expensive than in NYC. The comparison between Nassau and SF from the same website shows food to be equally expensive in both cities:
https://expatistan.com/cost-of-living/comparison/nassau/san-francisco
(Note that this is data from expats, not locals, so Larks’ hypothesis doesn’t seem to fully explain the discrepancy.)
Thanks, I should have clarified—done that now.
Sure but the former is closer to what would be relevant to consumption habits for people coming from America or presumably Europe in a <6 month fellowship, though maybe if there are a lot of qualified applicants from other Carribean islands my picture is off.
Would you be interested in translating our disagreement into a bet?
Sure happy to make a 1:1 bet that a survey of FTX EA fellows from the Bay Area to the Bahamas (excluding myself if I decided to go) will find that the average person would consider their meals not covered by FTX to be on average more expensive in the Bahamas than their prior meals in the Bay Area.
Can go up to $250
Wait, “more expensive” ≠ 20–50% more expensive. How much probability density do you put in that range?
You made a positive claim (assuming you’re taking that website literally) that it’s noticeably cheaper, I made a positive claim that it’s noticeably more expensive. 1:1 bet in the middle seems fair.
Hmm 14 hours ago I’d have said maybe 60%, but now I’m down to 35% because you seemed confident and maybe looked into it more than I had.
Yeah, that’s fair. Sorry if my comment came across as overly confrontational.
On reflection, getting an accurate sense of the costs of food in Nassau is probably quite useful for many FTX Fellowship applicants, whereas I doubt many are interested in seeing you and I arrange the terms of a public bet. So although I was the one who proposed the bet and am still interested in it (and am happy to go up to $250 and rely on a survey of FTX EA fellows as you suggested), I am now more inclined to just share my estimates and see how much they disagree with yours or those of others, and perhaps explore the reasons for that disagreement.
So, without doing basically any research, and relying solely on the link I provided above and the links Stefan later shared, I’d say my best estimate is that food in Nassau is roughly as expensive as food in the Bay Area. Again very roughly, I’d say there’s a 50% chance that food in Nassau is between 25% less expensive and 25% more expensive as in the Bay, and maybe a 90% chance that it’s less than 50% more expensive. This doesn’t take into account the fact that you seem to trust your friend’s estimates, which may cause me to update a bit in your direction.
Thanks for your estimates! I’m also sorry if I appeared confrontational, but upon reflection I appreciate the pushback!
Taking a step back, isn’t this all a bit weird? Given that there’s going to only be a projected 10-25 fellows, and that a CEO of a billion-dollar trading firm is personally spending time to evaluate applications, I really don’t think it makes sense, taking the broad view, for people who get the offer to decide not to go due to financial costs.
But of course that’s the “view from above”, and individual EAs may be substantially liquidity or otherwise constrained. Hopefully this will not deter people from applying, and accepted fellows can provide feedback on whether they think the location would be a financial hardship, and I’m optimistic that either FTX or the rest of the EA movement can figure this out.
Isn’t housing more relevant than groceries? A typical household spends about 3x as much on housing than on all consumption goods combined (IIRC). And that site says housing in Nassau is a lot cheaper than in SF.
FTX is providing housing, so housing costs aren’t decision-relevant for potential applicants.
Oh wow, that is a pretty big update.